Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank so that he can develop Gaza.. Trump is completely transactional..

Whitewavemark2

Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being a dictator.

The push is clearly on to rid themselves of Zelenskyy.

Europe must absolutely support him.

Must it? I can’t see that happening.
I think Zelensky, who’s no fool, now knows it’s over.A deal will be done with or without him.His only hope is that he keeps most of Ukraine and that in an election the people of Ukraine choose to vote for him to continue.

He still has a 54% rating - and I don't think the Ukrainian laws allow an election during a war.

Trump's lies are ridiculous but of course if you keep saying untruths loudly and repeatedly, people will swallow it.

Propaganda 101:

#1: If you tell a lie big enough, and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

#2: Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.

#3: Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident that they are acting on their own free will.

#4: It [is] vitally important for the State..to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus...the greatest enemy of the State.

- Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister for "Public Enlightenment"
(Propaganda) in Nazi Germany.

Donald Trump: “Russia fought for that land in Ukraine and lost a lot of soldiers doing it, so Russia should keep it.”

He is parroting Putin.

NotSpaghetti

He still has a 54% rating - and I don't think the Ukrainian laws allow an election during a war.

Trump's lies are ridiculous but of course if you keep saying untruths loudly and repeatedly, people will swallow it.

That was obvious during the Brexit referendum, and is obvioud now. Same people too. I always maintained that Putin's first step in destabilising Europe was Brexit, courtesy of his useful idiot Farage. Now he is using that fool Trump and publicly mocking him.

To my mind Trump is simply a mouthpiece for Putin atm, repeating Russian propaganda. I think this Russian organ grinder has got himself a very useful monkey.
Has Trump got no pride at all? He calls himself a patriot but with patriots like this who needs enemies?

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being a dictator.

The push is clearly on to rid themselves of Zelenskyy.

Europe must absolutely support him.

Must it? I can’t see that happening.
I think Zelensky, who’s no fool, now knows it’s over.A deal will be done with or without him.His only hope is that he keeps most of Ukraine and that in an election the people of Ukraine choose to vote for him to continue.

And that he and his family can cling on to their lives. Putin is unforgiving of his opponents.

Babs03

To my mind Trump is simply a mouthpiece for Putin atm, repeating Russian propaganda. I think this Russian organ grinder has got himself a very useful monkey.
Has Trump got no pride at all? He calls himself a patriot but with patriots like this who needs enemies?

He's just not very bright, though, is he. Cunning perhaps.
Putin can run rings round him.

Trump has every reason to try and get revenge on Ukraine/Zelensky.

Dont forget that Trump was impeached over contacts with Ukraine

'The Trump–Ukraine scandal was a political scandal that arose primarily from the discovery of U.S. President Donald Trump's attempts to coerce Ukraine into investigating his political rival Joe Biden and thus potentially damage Biden's campaign for the 2020 Democratic Party presidential nomination. (Wiki)"

It was National Security Council staffer Lt. Col. Alexander Vindaman in July 2019 who had been listening to the call later testified that Trump’s effort to pressure Zelensky into investigating domestic political rivals so alarmed him that he reported it to Eisenber

(Bloomberg)

NotSpaghetti

He still has a 54% rating - and I don't think the Ukrainian laws allow an election during a war.

Trump's lies are ridiculous but of course if you keep saying untruths loudly and repeatedly, people will swallow it.

BBC fact check on elections

"His first five-year term of office was due to come to an end in May 2024.

However, Ukraine has been under martial law since the Russian invasion in February 2022, which means elections are suspended.

In November 2022,

all parties in Ukraine's parliament backed postponing elections until the war end and Zelensky has vowed to hold a new election once the conflict ends

Ukraine's law banning presidential, parliamentary and local elections during wartime was passed in 2015, well before Zelensky was elected

so - it predates Zelensky: it was approved by all parties in Ukraine parliament.

Whitewavemark2

Donald Trump: “Russia fought for that land in Ukraine and lost a lot of soldiers doing it, so Russia should keep it.”

He is parroting Putin.

Honestly, you couldn’t make it up! It’s not Russia’s land, any of Ukraine.

Another claim against Zelensky was made upthread, that he imprisoned his political rivals.

Not true:

fact check

www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20241125-does-ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky-imprison-his-political-opponents

"Truth or Fake: Does Ukraine's Zelensky imprison his political opponents? No"

sorry, missed a quote on my last post above

"Some social media users are claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is a "dictator" since he allegedly imprisons his political opponents.

These claims are based on statements made by Tulsi Gabbard, who was recently designated as Donald Trump's future head of US intelligence

CNN reporting that Putin has got all the concessions he has demanded, without any discussion. Trump is apparently parroting Putin, and completely caving in.

It is thought that Trump really could not care less about Ukraine/Europe, thus the race to complete the “deal”.

Parsley3

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

Posting this again. Time is never wasted by checking facts.

It's precisely this kind of situation that makes you realise why certain people are so invested in 'defunding the BBC'.

There’s two sides to this.
And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 🤔

No, FriedGreenTomatoes I don't agree that thete ate two sides to this with the truth in the middle.
I don't even understand what uou mean with this.

Trump lies. He is in bed with Putin.
That's it.
🤷‍♀️

FriedGreenTomatoes2

There’s two sides to this.
And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 🤔

No. There are not. I truly despair.

Russia invaded a sovereign country. Where are the two sides in that?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

There’s two sides to this.
And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 🤔

Right. So France invades us, and want to own us and rename us France. Germany agrees that they can. Are you fine with that?

Repercussions isn't a word Trump is familiar with, but I think that all the totally absurd and highly damaging decisions he is making right now in haste he will come to regret at leisure.
As will those who voted for him, indeed some are already regretting their decision by all accounts.
This will not end well.

A chat I had with my daughter recently made me chuckle I whatsapped her that there was a child in the Oval office picking his nose, she whatsapped back to ask 'Trump was picking his nose?'
Think it was my daughter who called it right.

Pence on X "Mr. President, Ukraine did not start this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion that took hundreds of thousands of lives. The road to peace must be built on the truth"

He added an article from Fox news, Trump's favorite TV channel, with the news of February 24, 2022: "Russia invades Ukraine in biggest European attack since world war ii".

x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

Good for Pence!

Other references like the Fox one will be dug up for sure - possibly quite an embarrassment as past footage dug up from current Republicans.

Not to mention of course footage from when Trump was impeached for his attempted persuasion of Zelensky 2019 to find an anti Biden story. Including a classic phone call after Trump says all these nice things

do watch this it really really shows Trump for what he is (this was one of the basis of impeachment

:I'd like you to do me a favour tho".....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyWNFvt9Fck