Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

A bit of fact checking never goes amiss.

Well I don't think that " welfare" or " woke" has anything to do with anything here, so I would like that set aside.
When the Putin/ Trump romance has annexed Ukraine, a confident Mr Putin will be drawing up a little shopping list of other places he wants, particularly those with useful stuff on his wish list, like minerals .
The Finnish people will be anxious, and rightly so. I don't offer a solution because I fear that it's all over.
Russians have to support their President, as they have no mechanism for dissent, and sufficient numbers of Americans will follow their leader wherever and whatever he does, because he's going to Make America Great Again.
This unholy alliance fills me with terror .

The elderly Keith Kellogg, U.S. President Donald Trump's Ukraine envoy, is in Ukraine today in order (it's said) to gather local opinions and visit sites.

Read about it in direct Kiev news
kyivindependent.com/trumps-envoy-kellogg-arrives-in-kyiv/

"Kellogg is visiting Kyiv shortly after the U.S. and Russian delegations held talks on ending the war in Saudi Arabia — without Ukraine's participation. Zelensky stressed that Ukraine would not accept the conclusions of talks carried out behind its back.

Trump's Ukraine envoy previously met with Zelensky and other top Ukrainian officials during the Munich Security Conference to discuss the war and the U.S.-proposed memorandum on Ukraine's rare earth minerals.

Recent developments indicate that Kellogg is being sidelined in Trump's peace efforts as he was not involved in the talks in Saudi Arabia.
Some experts attribute this to Kellogg's pro-Ukraine stances and Russia's alleged objections to him.

So he's just sent as a straw man?

Incidentally, it's interesting to look at the news headlines on the front page of this Kiev newspaper. Lies exposed and titbits....

"US provided Ukraine with $100 billion in aid, not $500 billion, Zelensky says. "

"Russia offering US deal on natural resources, access to Arctic. Moscow suggested that American oil companies may return to the country, Russian negotiator Kirill Dmitriev said before the talks started in Riyadh"

Parsley3

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

A bit of fact checking never goes amiss.

Good fact check there.

I wonder if Kellogg comes back and reports how much support Zelensky has and the state of Russian attacks on key points (like water supply or power stations) but Zelensky still has support, whether Trump will just lie some more.

I wonder what would happen if Zelensky started talking to China. They have minerals the USA wants after all....

An alternative take on all this ….
(I’m not saying I agree with all of it.). My cousin & Himself WhatsApp last night.

“I cannot understand why people cannot see this for what it is.

Ukraine was neutral back in 2012, since that point the EU tried to lure the Ukraine into the union with the offer of cheap loans, the Russians eager to keep Ukraine neutral offered cheap gas. The then incumbent PM decided to remain on the cheap gas deal with Russia and stay neutral.

The EU (along with Obama) then decided regime change was needed and there was an uprising and a change of leader. This was the start of it.

Now millions have died, and all because the EU decided to use US money and the threat of NATO to get their hands on Ukraine’s minerals etc.

The US having spend c £300 billion now under Trump that they want their money back and war isn’t the way forward. The EU doesn’t like this as it thought their “left wing Empire” would be added to.

People have deluded themselves that this is about honor, freedom and democracy when it’s really about land, cash and minerals.

Zelensky has squirreled away millions and was a soap actor, who has imprisoned his political opponents and refused to hold elections.
As for Russia, they couldn’t take Ukraine much less Europe”

It’s complicated isn’t it? Viewpoints are numerous.

Putin must be breaking open his very finest vodka and caviar today. He no longer needs to pump out his own propaganda - he can sit back and watch Trump on TV delivering it for him!

If Russia couldn't take Ukraine why did it even try? And why would Putin be so terrified of NATO?

I NEVER thought I would hear myself say this .. but I *agree with Boris Johnson*:

“Boris Johnson has called on Europe to "get serious" about supporting Ukraine and defending itself from Russia…”
(Sky News online)

FriedGreenTomatoes2

An alternative take on all this ….
(I’m not saying I agree with all of it.). My cousin & Himself WhatsApp last night.

“I cannot understand why people cannot see this for what it is.

Ukraine was neutral back in 2012, since that point the EU tried to lure the Ukraine into the union with the offer of cheap loans, the Russians eager to keep Ukraine neutral offered cheap gas. The then incumbent PM decided to remain on the cheap gas deal with Russia and stay neutral.

The EU (along with Obama) then decided regime change was needed and there was an uprising and a change of leader. This was the start of it.

Now millions have died, and all because the EU decided to use US money and the threat of NATO to get their hands on Ukraine’s minerals etc.

The US having spend c £300 billion now under Trump that they want their money back and war isn’t the way forward. The EU doesn’t like this as it thought their “left wing Empire” would be added to.

People have deluded themselves that this is about honor, freedom and democracy when it’s really about land, cash and minerals.

Zelensky has squirreled away millions and was a soap actor, who has imprisoned his political opponents and refused to hold elections.
As for Russia, they couldn’t take Ukraine much less Europe”

It’s complicated isn’t it? Viewpoints are numerous.

Isn't this all about the Pandora Papers, FriedGreenTomatoes*?

Wasn't he disinvesting/ or maybe already had at the time of publication?

Can't remember the details. He had money from the production company held in Cyprus I think??

I can’t remember either NotSpaghetti. 🤔

Well, from world pariah/war monger to best buds with the POTUS, that is a helluva turn around. Putin and Netanyahu must be thinking of just what they can get away with now. Happy days.

FGT - fake news plus some distorted choices to concoct a "truth social narrative"

- the giveaway (apart from actual lies) is

the Trump/Reform version you use to describe the EU as a "left wing empire" - straight out of far right text book ideology. Load of baloney, as Judge J would say

for example - fact checks on purported wealth
www.dw.com/en/fact-check-new-fakes-on-zelenskyys-purported-wealth/a-69552392

For example - "refused to call elections" - Like UK in WW2, as you pointed out yourself upthread, in severe war conditions elections are not held, and it was enshrined in Ukraine Law in 2015

*for example - a key part of the thinking is that the EU deliberately plotted a change in direction of Ukraine.
Ukraine decided that itself by a democratically elected government and hardly surprising after Russian incursions into Crimea in 2014*

KEY MOMENTS
Updated 1 minute ago
3:00pm
Zelensky accuses Trump of ‘disinformation’
2:01pm
Macron rules out sending French combat troops to Ukraine’s front line
12:15pm
Watch: Trump says that Ukraine ‘should have never started’ the war
11:30am
Ukraine hits back at Trump over claims Kyiv started war with Russia
10:57am
US has helped bring Russia out of global isolation, says Zelensky

Wyllow3 I was only responding to the FGT's cousins comments re Zelenskyy and his finances.

Obviously lots of other misinformation there.

It sounds like Trump wants to replace Zelensky presumably with a more Trump friendly leader. Certainly all the talk about a lack of elections and Zelensky’s drop in ratings points towards this. And the new leader will probs be more pro Putin as well.

Why so gleeful FGT? And where did your alternative facts come from?

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

Posting this again. Time is never wasted by checking facts.

Babs03

It sounds like Trump wants to replace Zelensky presumably with a more Trump friendly leader. Certainly all the talk about a lack of elections and Zelensky’s drop in ratings points towards this. And the new leader will probs be more pro Putin as well.

I think it’s most likely that Russia want Zelensky replaced, because he’s been too successful as president, with an anti Russia stance. He is also popular in Ukraine, and popular with leaders of regimes which are anti Russia’s behaviour. I think they underestimate the anti Russia feelings though, I can’t see anybody apart from USA wanting to reopen trade negotiations with them any time soon. In fact, I think both Putin and Trump have underestimated the lasting impact on the reputation of their countries.

HousePlantQueen

Why so gleeful FGT? And where did your alternative facts come from?

A lot can be found on Guido Fawkes website.
Perhaps a matter of spinning a web of alternative facts into a narrative that favours Trump's attempts to dominate and undermine Europe and impose a Truth social Narrative and import it into the UK.

Wyllow3

HousePlantQueen

Why so gleeful FGT? And where did your alternative facts come from?

A lot can be found on Guido Fawkes website.
Perhaps a matter of spinning a web of alternative facts into a narrative that favours Trump's attempts to dominate and undermine Europe and impose a Truth social Narrative and import it into the UK.

All sounds a bit 5th columnist to me.

Parsley3

BBC News - Fact-checking Trump claims about war in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko

Posting this again. Time is never wasted by checking facts.

It is with some. Excellent article

The last thing we need is people distorting or deliberately telling lies yet that’s where we are.
It seems our summer riots were fuelled by lies from Russian bots
We need to know who our enemy is and it certainly isn’t Zelensky

Babs03

It sounds like Trump wants to replace Zelensky presumably with a more Trump friendly leader. Certainly all the talk about a lack of elections and Zelensky’s drop in ratings points towards this. And the new leader will probs be more pro Putin as well.

I agree Babs3.. Trump will get rid of Zelensky and split the the all the mining profits with Putin. Then he'll wait for Hamas releases the last of the hostages before encouraging Netanyahu
to resume the war and displace all Palanstinians

Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being a dictator.

The push is clearly on to rid themselves of Zelenskyy.

Europe must absolutely support him.