Trump Pauses Aid To Ukraine

AGAA4

Iam64

The press is reporting Vance said “if you want real security guarantees, to ensure Putin does not invade Ukraine again, the very best security guarantee is Americans economic upside in the future of Ukraine. That is a way better security guarantee than 20,000 troops from some random country that hasn’t fought a war in 30 or 40 years”

Downing Street slapped down the VPs comments “the PM and this country are full of admiration for UK troops who served in recent years in Iraq and Afghanistan alongside the US and other allies (daily Mail )

Vance is now saying he didn’t mean UK or France

An insult to the UK and our armed forces. Vance is getting too big for his boots. He has been called an attack dog and the description fits him perfectly.

I think he is saying what he thinks to be true, and it may well be.
He has been called an attack dog
An attack dog for peace?

You do realise that all our weapons are old, almost defunct and old technology.

As I understand it we have around 70, 000 troops. Figures vary as to what percentage are battle ready.

To illustrate, Israel has pulled the most technically advanced ship (destroyer Ill find the name later if you want it) out of the range of the Houthis drones which can travel 100s of mph and carry bombs capable of similar destruction to a small nuclear war head. The ship is next to useless. Too big for a start.
For that matter so are nuclear bombs, if any old country can arm itself with these types of weapons.

Doesn't it make sense to find as many ways to buy time to re defend ourselves?
Isn't a cease fire in Ukraine one road to decreasing the likelihood of WW3?

Too many people are being led by their emotions and the wordsmiths are playing a good game.

None of us like to be thought of as lacking in some manner, do we?

I see no one has commented on V.Zelenskky baiting Trump with his threat of the '
ocean not being enough to separate you from the trouble one day'

A reference to drones which could be launched from Europe Ukraine or Russia or elsewhere, and reach a target in USA in 3 hours.
How should that be viewed?

So far no one has a decent defence against such weapons.

Without USA investment in some fashion we never will have.

Isn't it better to have a cool head about the rhetoric being spewed at us, and analyse what the results of acting on such words are?

The childhood rhyme sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me, springs to mind.

There’s a bit more to it than this but am very busy just now

It seems as if there are only two self-interested players. The USA and Russia.

The other protagonists all want a peaceful solution to this conflict.

ronib

European countries are not in a position to protect Ukraine as they have depleted their own defence infrastructure. America does not have to agree to support the Ukrainian war indefinitely and with no end plan. Arguably having given 3 years support, it is now asking for resolution and that is not unreasonable.

I agree that there needs to be some sort of resolution, but he want Ukraine to wave the white flag and hand over mineral rights. That way Trump and Putin can take what they want, when they want with no consequences. Trump can't see anything but dollar signs for something that he has no rights over.

Zelenskyy has just issued an update on X. Truce air and sea. Rather complimentary about Trump.

Let's hope Russia agree

I see no one has commented on V.Zelenskky baiting Trump with his threat of the 'ocean not being enough to separate you from the trouble one day'

If what you claim is true then Zelenskyy is quite correct.
I did not see it as a threat, more a comment that the USA is not immune from attack by other countries. He did not mean by Ukraine.
He could, of course, have meant that Trump might feel differently if it was his country under attack and he too would want to defend his own country.

Although I can't quite picture him as Head if the Armed Forces somehow. He'll be in his bunker, letting the losers and suckers fight for his country.

If what you claim is true then Zelenskyy is quite correct.

Nope! I just made it up. But seriously it's out there on X and Sky news and everywhere by now I'd have thought

I've very pleased. Hope Russia agrees.

Russia could stop the war immediately. Why no pressure on Russia by USA?

Well we know why don’t we?

I do think that this statement was drawn up and was decided by Zelenskyy along with Starmer and other leaders over the weekend, as at present there is alternative.

I totally agree Whitewavemark2.

Sorry, Allira!

Just seen you weren't responding to my comment!

Allira

^I see no one has commented on V.Zelenskky baiting Trump with his threat of the 'ocean not being enough to separate you from the trouble one day'^

If what you claim is true then Zelenskyy is quite correct.
I did not see it as a threat, more a comment that the USA is not immune from attack by other countries. He did not mean by Ukraine.
He could, of course, have meant that Trump might feel differently if it was his country under attack and he too would want to defend his own country.

Although I can't quite picture him as Head if the Armed Forces somehow. He'll be in his bunker, letting the losers and suckers fight for his country.

Yes it is open to interpretation.

Namsnanny

Do you want me to write what each side should say/do?
What is the point of your perspective?
Could you explain what it is about my posts you do not agree with?

How could anyone disagree that the two countries should negotiate,

I just wondered if you had any ideas on what each side would get or give up? Because that’s where negotiations fail, isn’t it?

Ukraine cant negotiate with Russia directly, who would provide any security afterwards, at least the US can provide some security through protecting their interests

Whitewavemark2

Russia could stop the war immediately. Why no pressure on Russia by USA?

Well we know why don’t we?

I do think that this statement was drawn up and was decided by Zelenskyy along with Starmer and other leaders over the weekend, as at present there is alternative.

Russia could stop the war immediately. Why no pressure on Russia by USA?

Because Trump has promised his voters he's going to stop the war, wants to win the Nobel Peace prize for doing so, and it's easier to badger Zelensky who is reliant on the US for funding, than it is to challenge Putin who isn't.

Besides which, Trump has no particular admiration for those who fight for their country - not even those who fought for the US - he has much more in common with powerful egomaniacs and has admitted he thinks Putin is a "genius" and is "savvy". So of course he's going to back Russia against Ukraine. Because it's the easiest and most profitable solution to end the war, and he will look like the hero for having done so.

... and all those lives that might have been sacrificed will be saved - this point will be driven home. What might happen further down the line, and not only in relation to Ukraine - because this is about more than that, Putin is an expansionist - no one knows. And I very much doubt, as it will concern Europe, that Trump will give a fig. He will either be shuffling around the Oval Office in his dotage having changed the Constitutional Amendment, or attempting to swing a golf-club in Mar el Lago.

Allira, Zelinski was not making a threat, he was simply stating facts. No threat.
Trump and Vance vile cowardly bullies, they wouldn't last a minute on the ground in Ukraine. Thank goodness the rest of Europe and now Canada are standing up to Pinky and Perky.

Allsorts

Allira, Zelinski was not making a threat, he was simply stating facts. No threat.
Trump and Vance vile cowardly bullies, they wouldn't last a minute on the ground in Ukraine. Thank goodness the rest of Europe and now Canada are standing up to Pinky and Perky.

I’m actually wondering what you expect the Europeans and Canada to actually “DO”, talk is easy but it’s not going to stop the war, neither are capable of credible military action. The only game in town is the US, Russia is not going to respect any
International Law argument, they are going to defend what they have won, we missed the chance to help Ukraine, now we get the best deal we can to end it.

namsnanny when Zelensky made the remark about an ocean not being enough to separate from trouble, he meant just that. Sitting talking in Washington (in our nice suits) is indeed an "ocean away" literally and figuratively from arriving after hours of travel representing a country where your people are being bombed and killed day after day.

It is not just utterly perverse to try and claim this was a threat but cruel and unnecessary....and you seem to forget that he is speaking a second language and might not have expressed it perfectly.

BTW, can someone please tell Farage it isn't appropriate to tell Zelensky he should have worn a suit?

Good post, Dickens.

I'm glad Zelensky has contacted Trump today with a letter showing willingness to sign a mining deal. Channels must be kept open.

ronib

There’s a bit more to it than this but am very busy just now

How convenient 🐓

Not so busy now RosieandherMaw - so just thought what is to stop Ukraine tearing up the rare minerals treaty/contract a few years down the line ? It was signed under duress after all and that should effectively nullify it.

Any feeling that Ukraine will be a vassal state of the USA by then along with Canada and Greenland? Better or worse than now?

Allsorts

Allira, Zelinski was not making a threat, he was simply stating facts. No threat.
Trump and Vance vile cowardly bullies, they wouldn't last a minute on the ground in Ukraine. Thank goodness the rest of Europe and now Canada are standing up to Pinky and Perky.

I said that, didnt I?
Or are you deliberately misinterpreting my post?

RosieandherMaw

ronib

There’s a bit more to it than this but am very busy just now

How convenient 🐓

Throw a grenade or two then retreat 😁

Yes it’s been one of those days …

Whitewavemark2

Russia could stop the war immediately. Why no pressure on Russia by USA?

Well we know why don’t we?

I do think that this statement was drawn up and was decided by Zelenskyy along with Starmer and other leaders over the weekend, as at present there is alternative.

Yes, I agree, it was what I had predicted.
Just what was needed at the moment.

ronib

Any feeling that Ukraine will be a vassal state of the USA by then along with Canada and Greenland? Better or worse than now?

Why not tell us in detail how you formed that theory ronib, and whether you think it would be for the good or not?