Nothing but nothing, can excuse Israel breaking the cease-fire in Gaza

growstuff

escaped

I understand that returning the hostages could potentially make things even worse for Palestinians, but when both sides are being so incredibly stubborn, even irrational, it's the only possible move forward I can think of.

The Israelis also need to keep to their side of the bargain to withdraw from Gaza. As you say, both sides are being stubborn. The real difference is that Israel has US military power and will be the inevitable winner. If I were a Gazan, I'd see no hope for the future and maybe the only hope I would have would be to die as a martyr.

If I were a Gazan? Surely you mean if I were a member of hamas?
I think intelligent Gazans realise that ‘dying as a martyr’ is bollocks in any case.

Oreo

growstuff

Jaberwok

As Golda Meir said 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, (and returned the hostages) there would be no more violence. If Israel put down its arms, there would be no more Israel.

I didn't believe that. In any case, Israel has moved on from the days of Golda Meir.

You didn’t believe that.Oh really!
As others say, if hamas chose to return the hostages, gave up and put on civilian clothes and melted into the background, it would all be over.Gaza could start to be rebuilt and lives go on.

No, I don't believe that for one moment.

Oreo

growstuff

escaped

I understand that returning the hostages could potentially make things even worse for Palestinians, but when both sides are being so incredibly stubborn, even irrational, it's the only possible move forward I can think of.

The Israelis also need to keep to their side of the bargain to withdraw from Gaza. As you say, both sides are being stubborn. The real difference is that Israel has US military power and will be the inevitable winner. If I were a Gazan, I'd see no hope for the future and maybe the only hope I would have would be to die as a martyr.

If I were a Gazan? Surely you mean if I were a member of hamas?
I think intelligent Gazans realise that ‘dying as a martyr’ is bollocks in any case.

Really? How many do you know?

escaped

Hamas could gain the moral high ground by releasing the hostages. That's all they have to do.
Then the rest of the world could justifiably criticise Israel's tactics.
But we're not talking about normal, reasonable people here. Hamas don't appear to want a starting point from which to go forward.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

None of us know Gazans on a personal level, and I wouldn’t believe anyone if they said they did but the more educated Gazans can hardly believe that cutting throats or shooting of those they call unbelievers guarantees a place in Heaven.
If they did, well, what a religion!

In fact, what over 3,000 of hamas and supporters did in October 2023 a cold bloodied murderous spree targeting even infants would likely guarantee them a place in Hell, if you believe those things.

Gazans generally ( not hamas and their many supporters ) must want the conflict to be at an end, and know that if the hostages were returned it could be over very soon.Aid would return and so could rebuilding.

There will never be peace there.

The truth is that hamas know it’s game over for them and caring nothing for their fellow countrymen will continue until a commander tells them to run away.It’s more than likely tho that any commander will tell them to fight to the last man in a tunnel while he personally escapes.

Aveline

There will never be peace there.

Probably not total peace but the end of what’s happening now and the end of hamas control in Gaza.

Oreo

Gazans generally ( not hamas and their many supporters ) must want the conflict to be at an end, and know that if the hostages were returned it could be over very soon.Aid would return and so could rebuilding.

Oreo, I would like to believe it possible, but Ben-Gvir specifically believes in an Israel which includes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. So how could they be trusted?

Oreo

The truth is that hamas know it’s game over for them and caring nothing for their fellow countrymen will continue until a commander tells them to run away.It’s more than likely tho that any commander will tell them to fight to the last man in a tunnel while he personally escapes.

How do you know?

It’s about more than Ben-Gvir fortunately.True tho that Trump will have imput.
The only true peace ( forever) would be if the West Bank and Gaza were part of Israel but that would be a step too far as Palestinians have to live somewhere in the region.
The ideal would be (IMO) that Gaza couldn’t choose its own government ever again in case it chooses extremism and terrorism groups, and is then rebuilt with aid from very many countries, it could be so much better there, we all know that.
For the West Bank, Israeli settlers stopped from going any further and a line drawn.Troops to pull down any Israeli building not authorised.Local leaders in the West Bank told they must control any unrest from Palestinians, no more sling shots and so on.Better relations all round to be established.

growstuff

Oreo

The truth is that hamas know it’s game over for them and caring nothing for their fellow countrymen will continue until a commander tells them to run away.It’s more than likely tho that any commander will tell them to fight to the last man in a tunnel while he personally escapes.

How do you know?

It’s a very likely scenario from extremists and terrorists.

The world has moved on since Golda Mier, but hatred for Israel is as alive and well as it ever was.

I totally agree with Oreo.

Jaberwok

The world has moved on since Golda Mier, but hatred for Israel is as alive and well as it ever was.

What has been happening in Gaza and the West Bank has revived it all and made it much much worse. And that is the other tragedy.

growstuff

Oreo

growstuff

Jaberwok

As Golda Meir said 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, (and returned the hostages) there would be no more violence. If Israel put down its arms, there would be no more Israel.

I didn't believe that. In any case, Israel has moved on from the days of Golda Meir.

You didn’t believe that.Oh really!
As others say, if hamas chose to return the hostages, gave up and put on civilian clothes and melted into the background, it would all be over.Gaza could start to be rebuilt and lives go on.

No, I don't believe that for one moment.

Me neither. Not for a single second!

Such a good quote by Golda Meir.
She also famously said “One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present.”

Indeed, and it goes both ways, of course.

Quote FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 22-Mar-25 12:41:58
Such a good quote by Golda Meir.
She also famously said “One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present.”

thank you FGT

Why I wonder, are other equally terrible conflicts , apart from a modicum from Ukraine, are hardly ever reported upon never mind demonstrated about, Syria, Sudan The Congo, Yemen and so on, and yet Gaza is non stop? Could it be, 'No Jews, No news?' Just a thought!

Jaberwok

Why I wonder, are other equally terrible conflicts , apart from a modicum from Ukraine, are hardly ever reported upon never mind demonstrated about, Syria, Sudan The Congo, Yemen and so on, and yet Gaza is non stop? Could it be, 'No Jews, No news?' Just a thought!

No I don’t that, I think it’s more that both Gaza and Ukraine have things people like Trump and Putin want, and that parts of Africa aren’t valued at all.

It’s all awful! People are losing their lives in many many conflicts

Anniebach

Quote FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 22-Mar-25 12:41:58
Such a good quote by Golda Meir.
She also famously said “One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present.”

thank you FGT

Love this quote, and so often people try and rewrite history.

I admired Golda Meir.

So not true that Gaza is in the news because it’s what Trump wants. Trump since January 2025

Marches re Gaza since 2023