Trans women and single-sex spaces

In the course of my life, I have met and worked with several trans women, all of whom worked very hard to pass as female, and just wanted to be able to get on with their lives in peace and with respect.And I genuinely don’t take issue with that.

Where I do take issue is with the politicisation of the subject, with men parading around aggressively and demanding to be allowed into single sex spaces as of right, while being very obviously male, and dressing in a way which no woman I have ever met would, and behaving ditto.

And I strongly object to being labelled as a TERF. As I said above, if a man wants to live as a woman, fine. I will treat them as the person they feel themselves to be, and I don’t have any issue with that. I see that as an act of inclusion.
But demanding access into single sex spaces because you happen to be wearing tights and lipstick while being in full possession of all your biological appendages and making sure that I know that you are so equipped and behaving in an entitled way? No.
And a person born male will die male, irrespective of the amount of surgeries he has undergone in order to present a more feminine appearance.

Well said, NotaNana, and that looks good to me, Terribull.

Looks good to me too so come on men, time for you to put any prejudice aside and make all men welcome.

whywhywhy

I feel so afraid and sad for trans people now. The genuine ones have a lesser place now. What have they done wrong? Nothing!

They don’t have a lesser place. The law hasn’t changed, but the actions of some men (TW) and their supporters have changed how safe the ‘genuine’ ones feel at the same time as changing how safe women feel.
Women have fought for the right to feel safe in daily life and various women’s places and to not be cheated out of awards, or threatened with job losses because of men lying that they are women.

Like you I feel concern for the ‘genuine’ trans, but along with that I feel concern for women who, as we have already seen, will still be at risk of attacks, threats and lies like TERF being hurled at them by TW and TRA/TRS some of whom are actually women.

There's a meme similar to this one where the figures are standing in front of urinals with the caption "you can pee next to me" and that's how it should be. Men need to accommodate all men including those with a 'woman' identity.

Hadn't refreshed the page my reply was to Terribull

I feel so afraid and sad for trans people now. The genuine ones have a lesser place now. What have they done wrong? Nothing!

I feel rather more sympathy for the women who done absolutely nothing wrong but have been penalised for telling the truth; a transwoman is not a woman and not entitled to share a woman-only place, and never has had that right.

They don't have a lesser place whywhywhy.

The 2024 Paris Olympics' gender parity milestone was tainted by gender-related disputes, with a recent United Nations report voicing concerns about issues related to women's sports competition.

According to the report, "Violence Against Women and Girls in Sports," transgender athletes have won around 900 medals in different women's sports at several events, replacing female athletes.

It also brought attention to the fact that more than 600 female athletes had lost against individuals born male in a variety of competitions, escalating the argument about competition fairness.

.Carlotta
Thanks for those figures.
The absolute idiocy and total unfairness to women was displayed by the recent female sports final contested by . . . Two men!

More and more sports are refusing to accept transgender in female sports MollyGo but that decision has come too late for these women.

A trans-identified six-foot-tall male player with facial hair playing for the KIPP Academy girls’ basketball team, injured multiple players and eventually forced the Collegiate Charter School to forfeit. In now widely circulated video, he is seen wrestling the ball away from one of the girls, causing her to hit the ground where she clutches her back in pain.^

North Carolina volleyball player Payton McNabb suffered serious injury after a trans-identified male player spiked a ball at her head and rendered her unconscious

Last year, a female athlete was injured by a trans-identified male opponent during a field hockey game in Massachusetts when a ball he threw at her, knocking her teeth out.

eazybee

^I feel so afraid and sad for trans people now. The genuine ones have a lesser place now. What have they done wrong? Nothing!^

I feel rather more sympathy for the women who done absolutely nothing wrong but have been penalised for telling the truth; a transwoman is not a woman and not entitled to share a woman-only place, and never has had that right.

I feel for both and believe it possible to do so.

It feels as if every time someone comes in to just say, please give consideration for the quiet transwomen wanting to lead as full a life as possible and not threatening women

we get yet another list (the same examples time after time that we are very very aware of) and have no intention of defending
in any way

in order to try and silence just asking for consideration for genuine trans.

You mean forgive, forget and move on Wyllow3? Time to stop talking about the years of injustices, unfairness, stripping of existence and lives wrecked? No. There have been, should you care to check, many, many references to the quiet transwomen who just want to live a quiet life. I'm still furious about the loud, angry, aggressive and violent others that we all know haven't finished yet.

Just look at where ‘being kind’ has got us. 🤷‍♀️

To clarify, I said, "we can care for both". There are mentions of the quiet and ordinary but they stay as mentions.

I don't do spats, I just state what I feel or think and agree or disagree and so on.

A lot of us have said that ordinary transwomen are also victims from those that do violence in their name FGT.

I dont think anyone on the thread has suggested kindness to TERFS.

Carlotta

You mean forgive, forget and move on Wyllow3? Time to stop talking about the years of injustices, unfairness, stripping of existence and lives wrecked? No. There have been, should you care to check, many, many references to the quiet transwomen who just want to live a quiet life. I'm still furious about the loud, angry, aggressive and violent others that we all know haven't finished yet.

Yes Carlotta.

Let’s see the injustices to women in the name of kindness to TW addressed first.

Let’s have apologies from politicians and public bodies who have perpetrated the lie that you can change sex.

Let’s have apologies from all those responsible for ‘cancelling’ those who spoke the truth, meaning loss of jobs.

Let’s have recompense to all those sportswomen who have been deprived of awards by cheating males.

Let’s have apologies to all those, male or female who have been punished for using the correct pronouns when faced with someone demanding that they lie.

Let’s even have apologies from those trans/tra causing harm to trans who have done no harm.

Then we can talk about moving on.

👏👏👏 Mollygo

Maybe they think we should use this? No chance!

Yes, fully agree, Mollygo and Carlotta.

Wyllow3

A lot of us have said that ordinary transwomen are also victims from those that do violence in their name FGT.

I dont think anyone on the thread has suggested kindness to TERFS.

Who are you calling TERFS Wyllow3? I'm so surprised and shocked at you using that derogatory term for women who know the difference between the sexes, it seems very out of character.

Eeek, I used the wrong term, sorry, I meant TRA. Extreme tiredness slip. thank you for pointing it out.

gulp I'm very relieved! I kept rereading because it was so out of character. We may not be 100% in accordance but you're never less than polite and considerate so it was a shock!

Oh! So we won't need the TERF lip gloss after all?

Carlotta

Oh! So we won't need the TERF lip gloss after all?

Thank goodness! I've stuck my fingers together enough times with that monstrosity. DH tries to keep me away from using it which only makes me more determined 🤣

Rosie51

gulp I'm very relieved! I kept rereading because it was so out of character. We may not be 100% in accordance but you're never less than polite and considerate so it was a shock!

just really relieved you pointed it out and it didn't stand!