Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

Carlotta

Speaking of empty words; I was just thinking about the Sandie Peggie v Fife NHS case and remembered a particular statement that Dr Upton made whilst under oath. He made the following statement: I’m biologically female. The term biologically female or biologically male is completely nebulous. It has no defined or agreed meaning in science, as far as I’m aware.” Now at the time, I remember being astounded that a medically qualified professional, who had undergone many years of training in science and biology, could ever really believe that; let alone state it whilst in a court of law and legally obliged to tell the truth. So how will Wednesday's ruling impact on his testimony and could their be repercussions in regards to fitness to practice? Just thinking aloud really......

I do think Dr Upton needs help.

I'm not sure what Dr Upton's speciality is but, personally, I would not want this person as my doctor if his knowledge of biology is so inadequate.

Allira, there must be a question of Dr Upton’s fitness to practice given his evidence about his dismissal of biological sex

Is there anyone available to have a conversation as if I am not an enemy of the state for having the occasional positive thought about trans people?

😂😂😂

Iam64

Allira, there must be a question of Dr Upton’s fitness to practice given his evidence about his dismissal of biological sex

Indeed. It has been known for some time that men’s and women’s bodies react differently to a number of medications and that it affects what should be prescribed and the optimum dosage.

Obviously Dr Upton would be unable to make a reasoned judgment if he is unable to to understand this.

Lathyrus3

It’s a sad level of debate when people have to make things up to bolster their own point of view.

It’s an even lower level when they have to make up things their opponents are supposed to have said.

I suppose the ignoring of requests for proof or alternatively providing unintelligible answers, is inevitable given the first two.

But the suggestion that other posters should back off and “allow” such posts to go unchallenged must be the ultimate in desperation.

🙄🤔

Ok.

What has been made up, and by whom?

What has an 'opponent' said (or not said) that has been made up?

What proof are you asking for? (apologies if you have already posted a request and I have missed it).

Please try to be explicit, so we can understand who is being accused of what.

I'm not sure what Dr Upton's speciality

A&E apparently Allira

Carlotta

^I'm not sure what Dr Upton's speciality^

A&E apparently Allira

Thanks Carlotta
Which means area of expertise should include wide ranging knowledge of acute medical conditions and trauma so that they can make accurate diagnoses of men, women and children.

Carlotta

^I'm not sure what Dr Upton's speciality^

A&E apparently Allira

Wonder how he ever ascertained the sex of an unconscious patient which can be important in the treatment administered? If they couldn't tell him did he toss a coin?

Carlotta

^there are trans people who do not wish any harm to women, have not encroached on their safe spaces and have not campaigned for anything.^

Regrettably their are many more trans activists who do wish harm to women, both verbally and physically and their are many cases you can find via the power of Google to corroborate that. Their are, even now, following the Supreme Court ruling, many trans activists who have clearly and publicly stated that they intend to ignore the law and will carry on invading places they have no rights to be in. We can only hope that they're made an example of when they're taken to court themselves. And as women won't back down or be quiet now, that could come sooner than you think.

Ugh ! These dangerous lurking trans people . So awful , so dangerous . So I hope all the gransnet transphobes here volunteer to police all these spaces where all this danger lurks .
You can make trans people where bands on their arms so that we know that a burly trans male is actually a woman and we can then feel safe that they are in their correct space .

WEAR not where hth

There would only be a point to that rather extreme measure if people continued to use spaces designed for the opposite sex despite the legislation clarifying that this is not acceptable within the law.

I am not a transphobe, and I have no interest in policing things - I am not trained to do so, I don't have time, and anyway, that's why I pay taxes. I do, however, wish to keep the protection of safe spaces for women. The law is clear, and I can't think of other areas where people question how something is going to be policed rather than whether a law is a good one or not.

Syracute do you have any sympathy with anyone who doesn't want to share intimate spaces with male bodied people, or are you such a captured handmaiden that any female need or desire should automatically be dismissed? I have a transgender person in my extended family, they agree females deserve privacy and respect away from males no matter how they 'identify'.

Wanting single sex spaces to be respected does not make anyone a transphobe. Are all transpeople and their allies women haters proudly displaying their misogyny? I thought not but it's ridiculous accusations like those of Syracute that drive people towards the more extreme factions.

Rosie51

Syracute do you have any sympathy with anyone who doesn't want to share intimate spaces with male bodied people, or are you such a captured handmaiden that any female need or desire should automatically be dismissed? I have a transgender person in my extended family, they agree females deserve privacy and respect away from males no matter how they 'identify'.

Nobody wants to infringe on anybody’s privacy . You won’t know they are there .
But really who IS going to police this ? What happens when a male presenting female shows up in the women’s toilet . How will that make anyone feel ? I am sure you don’t care about the safety of a female presenting transgender person being in a male toilet ?
Their tough luck , I suppose .

You can be sure of anything you like, doesn't make you right. Equally I can be sure you don't care about the safety of women and girls and would happily sacrifice them on the altar of trans ideology any day. Just their tough luck I suppose. See two can play at that game, it achieves nothing.

The important part is the Supreme Court has clarified that sex means biological sex and transwomen are male sex, so they need to butt out of women's single sex spaces and events.

What do you mean by 'female presenting'? If I go out in jeans and a checked shirt am I 'male presenting'? What if the hypothetical transperson is also wearing jeans and a check shirt? Is the Gents' more appropriate in that case?

Realistically, if someone goes to the Ladies, has a wee and comes out (after washing their hands and checking their hair) nobody is likely to care. Contrary to a lot of the hysteria from anti-feminists, most women are not transphobic. Nobody I know or have ever known is such. It is not Hayley from Coronation Street that troubles us. It is being powerless to stop a bearded bloke with a deep voice and bulging Adam's apple from forcing his way into our spaces and behaving in a threatening manner, claiming to be a woman. Along with mangling the language, skewing statistics, mutilating children and so on.

As has been said to the point of tedium, the TRAs who pushed things too far have done everyone a disservice. I have every sympathy for 'quiet' transwomen, but I'm afraid that this is for them to put right - they have piggybacked on feminists' fights until now, and it's time they fought their own battles instead of expecting women to do it for them. Again.

Doodledog as I can't remember the last time i wore a skirt or frock do you think that means I've 'male presented' to the point of no return? Am I now officially male and will have to learn how to use a urinal? Feeling a bit scared..........

Who knows, Rosie? It's much like 'feeling like a woman', I think. What do women feel like? Do we all feel the same? I doubt it, somehow.

Doodledog

Who knows, Rosie? It's much like 'feeling like a woman', I think. What do women feel like? Do we all feel the same? I doubt it, somehow.

Look like a woman
Feel like a woman
Act like a woman
Dress like a woman

Are all descriptions of or by men.

Women don’t need to do any of those things, because they are women.
(What a relief to use that word and know that people understand I must mean female without having to use AHF )

Syracute why would it be dangerous for a female presenting transgender person to be in a male toilet?

I think we all know the answer to that. It's because men can be dangerous, which is why women fought to have spaces of our own where they aren't allowed.

I genuinely do understand why transwomen may not want to use male loos, but something has to give. Either they (as males) need to be as forceful as some were about entering female spaces and front out being in male spaces as putative females, or they impose themselves on women.

Women have said no, and finally been listened to, so there is only the other route available. They tell men that whether they like it or not transwomen will share their spaces. Women were expected to deal with this, as the 'weaker; sex - why can't men deal with it now?

Nannee49

Syracute why would it be dangerous for a female presenting transgender person to be in a male toilet?

Do I REALLY need to explain this ??!!!
Would you feel safe as a woman going into a male toilet ?

So it’s males who are the danger? Can’t you see that this is exactly why many women want single-sex spaces?