Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

Galaxy

He takes his share of responsibility as does Penny Mordaunt who was wedded to Self ID whatever she may say now, the Lib Dems were particularly unpleasant towards those who were GC, and the Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue. The tories had years to turn this around, they failed. It is also a failure of society as a whole if we want to look at it from a wider perspective.
It was the feminists, some very brave lesbians and gay men, and of course social media who come out of this with credit.

I wouldn’t bless the Greens, more the opposite!

Galaxy

He takes his share of responsibility as does Penny Mordaunt who was wedded to Self ID whatever she may say now, the Lib Dems were particularly unpleasant towards those who were GC, and the Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue. The tories had years to turn this around, they failed. It is also a failure of society as a whole if we want to look at it from a wider perspective.
It was the feminists, some very brave lesbians and gay men, and of course social media who come out of this with credit.

Yes: so many people, organisations, the press, the politicians involved.

Not only did the Conservatives have years to turn it around, but they actively contributed - Teresa May was a strong advocate from 2017 on for Self ID

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks.

How short our memories are.

And if we want to go back even further it was Blairs government which introduced the GRA which I think is a flawed piece of legislation.

I think it was what happened to the SNP that made Starmer slightly shift before the election, no one could have looked at that debacle and thought oh this looks a good position for a political party to take on.

Galaxy

He takes his share of responsibility as does Penny Mordaunt who was wedded to Self ID whatever she may say now, the Lib Dems were particularly unpleasant towards those who were GC, and the Greens bless them have absolutely lost any sense of morality on this issue. The tories had years to turn this around, they failed. It is also a failure of society as a whole if we want to look at it from a wider perspective.
It was the feminists, some very brave lesbians and gay men, and of course social media who come out of this with credit.

I agree with this. I'm not saying that KS handled it well. I left the LP as a result of this and his sacking of left wingers in the party. It's just that IMO the way he is being blamed for this is a perfect illustration of why he behaved as he did. Being blamed for not being strong enough against the people who allowed something to happen (instead of the people who allowed it to happen getting the blame) is exactly the sort of thing he spends half his time having to deal with . It must be exhausting.

I said at the time that I didn't believe he really thought women could have penises - he was in the thrall of Stonewall, but I personally know several people who went along with it, as they knew what the consequences would be. Pronouns on emails, on Zoom/Teams screens was only the thin end of the wedge for a lot of people. One of the few upsides of getting older was, for me, the ability to refuse to play along, as doing so wasn't necessary to support my family. It was insidious and deeply embedded into many workplaces, as people like Kathleen Stock can attest. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and blame people who were in that position, and that is true of the LP as much as of local councils, universities, schools etc. How can you (anyone) fight against something from the dole queue? You have to be in the organisation, or give it up to the captured and lose all hope of change.

The country was in an almighty mess after 14 years of the tories. Starmer, love him or loathe him, wanted to be elected to sort that out as best he could. He was/is aware that the media are against him, and that many of the population will repeat the slogans fed them by the headlines, so had to be very careful about what he said in the run up to the election, and to stay on the right side of incredibly powerful groups such as Stonewall was at the time.

I do think he should have made a stand, and I said that at the time, too. But at the same time, do those who criticise him now honestly think that things would have been better under the Tories? Starmer is a pragmatist, and could have done nothing if he hadn't been elected.

Galaxy

And if we want to go back even further it was Blairs government which introduced the GRA which I think is a flawed piece of legislation.

Browns I think?

Oh I am glad if that is the case WW, I always feel the need to defend Blair, I think Brown is a good man but somehow I don't feel as much need to defend his actions.

🙄

Whitewavemark2

Galaxy

And if we want to go back even further it was Blairs government which introduced the GRA which I think is a flawed piece of legislation.

Browns I think?

The Government had to introduce it as it was a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights.

It was passed in the Commons, the Lords and received Royal Assent then the Equality Act reinforced certain gender equality rights in 2010.

What has the European Court of Human Rights said on this ruling by the Supreme Court here? Any pronouncement?

Did anyone else listen to FWS on Women's Hour today? Susan Smith was excellent, so calm so reasoned. A complete opposite to some of the rantings we hear from the transactivists. As usual one of the first questions from the interviewer was about having sympathy for the transwomen. I've never heard them start an interview with a transwoman or an ally with whether they have any sympathy for biological women. JKR's help with funding had to be brought up but given her contribution is put at £70,000 and this last case alone cost £400,000 Susan was able to confirm that most funding came from the thousands of small donations from ordinary women.

And to be honest JKRowling can spend money in whatever way she likes, some always get cross about that. It was a constant refrain 'who is funding them' when it was just women organising amongst themselves. I am going to listen later Rosie.

I've got it saved on Sounds Rosie51 looking forward to it when I've got a bit of peace and quiet to listen properly. Mumsnetters have a thread running about the programme and one poster has advised The interview with Susan Smith was pre-recorded so that the BBC could control what was said. That wouldn't surprise me in the least considering the reasons that Jenny Murray gave for leaving.

Allira

Whitewavemark2

Galaxy

And if we want to go back even further it was Blairs government which introduced the GRA which I think is a flawed piece of legislation.

Browns I think?

The Government had to introduce it as it was a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights.

It was passed in the Commons, the Lords and received Royal Assent then the Equality Act reinforced certain gender equality rights in 2010.

What has the European Court of Human Rights said on this ruling by the Supreme Court here? Any pronouncement?

Not that I’ve heard, but I think this was a ruling to make clear what is meant by the term woman. Presumably from the apparent confusion.

Radio 5 Live has also had a programme on about it this morning. Ricky Campbell interviewed a panel of MPs regarding the Supreme Court ruling. I'll catch up with that on Sounds too because apparently Starmer and his U turn and treatment of Rosie Duffield were key moments.

Carlotta

I've got it saved on Sounds Rosie51 looking forward to it when I've got a bit of peace and quiet to listen properly. Mumsnetters have a thread running about the programme and one poster has advised The interview with Susan Smith was pre-recorded so that the BBC could control what was said. That wouldn't surprise me in the least considering the reasons that Jenny Murray gave for leaving.

Yes Carlotta the presenter says at the start it was an interview conducted earlier. I found that surprising because although I stopped being a regular listener when Jenni Murray left, I do listen occasionally and the trans activists always seem to be interviewed live.
Jenni Murray would have been great if she'd still been there for this ruling, don't think she'd have been as mealy mouthed.

LizzieDrip

As usual … it’s all the fault of Keir Starmer!

Not all his fault but he needs to get a backbone and not run with the hare and hounds. He used to be indecisive, now he's not so sure.

Can I just put in a word for a man who did have a backbone - and then some.

Graham Lineham , the writer of Father Ted, who literally sacrificed everything, his home, his marriage, his livelihood and endured endless abuse just because he said a man could not be a woman.

I know it’s a bit irrelevant to the thread but I feel he needs some recognition. I don’t know if he’s posted anything over the last few days, but when he was blasted online for ‘speaking on behalf of women” he sad “When men will listen to women, then I’ll shut up.”

Yes! Well said Lathyrus you're absolutely right; Graham Lineham lost everything and still never shut up or gave up. He was completely and totally cancelled for speaking up for women and speaking the truth. Thanks for the reminder.

Thanks for the reminder Lathyrus3
Some men were brave for speaking the truth even when it meant losing everything, except his integrity.

Sarnia

LizzieDrip
As usual … it’s all the fault of Keir Starmer!
Not all his fault but he needs to get a backbone and not run with the hare and hounds.
He used to be indecisive, now he's not so sure. 🤣🤣🤣

CountessFosco

You are right - far too few care, they would rather respond to silly, superficial comments. Just my opinion. Also fed-up with GN. If only everyone was forced to give their names instead of hiding behind pseudonyms, maybe the content would be better?

I care greatly. But, unfortunately, I still work, I start work at 4am and do not have time to spend on here all day.

I drop in and out WHEN I have time, which is not very often.
I would happily give you my real name if you really need to know, it's not far off my GN name.

Just a thought though, if you are that fed up with GN, why are you still here?

I will never understand Graham Lineham complaining about cancel culture. I think people often get rather angry that any rights about free speech doesn't actually mean anyone has to listen to you.

What did GL say that you don't understand, Luminance?

Luminance
Do you approve of the cancel culture that went on, affecting the livelihoods of anyone who said you can’t change sex or that biological sex is the truth?