Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

It isn't acceptable in either case without hypocrisy I'm afraid. I don't accept any of it to anyone in any circumstances. You must know what will simply occur now? Trans people who were growing more comfortable with who they are and not hiding it will simply stay unobtrusive. They will slide under the radar using single cubicle facilities without advertising the fact. They will give you their pronouns without telling you their "biological sex" and you won't always know because our Lord knows I couldn't tell until I was told on many occasions.

Luminance

No, just a lot of people who already fear discrimination, being attacked or being targeted should their personal information become available. That is why I feel a lot of empathy as a woman. Knowing that activists do this type of thing and it actually does go both ways. We cannot act like biological women only have been targeted and declare ourselves living in reality.

Oh for goodness' sake, do please link to the marches of placard carrying hordes of women with messages like 'kill a transperson' "punch a transperson' or maybe 'choke on my vulva'.

Oh god transmitter cement.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

trans movement

Have people been telling someone what their biological sex is when giving them their pronoun? I haven't heard of this before Luminance.

The vast majority of trans people were unobtrusive which is why for decades there hadn't been a problem. The trouble started with those who are the opposite and if the lives of members of the trans community have been damaged in anyway, we and I'm sure they know who is to blame.

It is a very sad day for democracy when all voices are not represented due to what amounts to a very public bullying and shaming campaign

Tell that to Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Roz Adams, Graham Lineham, Rosie Duffield and Katie Alcock. Their voices were well and truly not represented and they were very publicly bullied and shamed.

You are welcome to look into it but I believe it's averaged over 4000 hate crimes against trans people in the UK this last few years and they are a very small minority group.

I was worried I had missed a whole section of the debate that involved the building trade Lathyrus

Can you provide a link or quote your source please Luminance?

Luminance

You are welcome to look into it but I believe it's averaged over 4000 hate crimes against trans people in the UK this last few years and they are a very small minority group.

So no links to the organised marches or protests against transpeople then? We could link to dozens of trans protests against women's groups in a heartbeat.

Luminance

You are welcome to look into it but I believe it's averaged over 4000 hate crimes against trans people in the UK this last few years and they are a very small minority group.

Oh. I think it’s only 10. You are welcome to look into it.

If you can pluck a figure out if your own head, so can I😬

Well, it seems I had rather underestimated. I will attach below.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2024/hate-crime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2024

Also, crimes by TRAs against women aren't counted as hate crimes, as women don't have those 'protections'. Does that mean that we are now the 'most vulnerable group in society?

Not to mention, that is only England and Wales. I am sure someone rather more technically minded could find the full amount.

I do feel crimes against women should be reported as hate crimes by any person who discriminates against women.

And when you’ve provided the links so we can look them up, Luminance,
are you saying that it will that make the attacks of TW, and TRA any less serious, or less damaging to women and as we have seen expressed on here, damaging to non violent trans?

Mollygo

And when you’ve provided the links so we can look them up, Luminance,
are you saying that it will that make the attacks of TW, and TRA any less serious, or less damaging to women and as we have seen expressed on here, damaging to non violent trans?

No, are you?

They can't make misogyny a hate crime, they would never be finished. I wouldn't want that to be placed in the legislation actually I don't think it would make any material difference to the safety of women which is what matters to me.

Good Luminance. I’m glad you’re admitting how dreadful the actions of TW and TRA against females have been.

Mollygo

Good Luminance. I’m glad you’re admitting how dreadful the actions of TW and TRA against females have been.

No, I'm not doing that either, that is also yourself.

Thanks for the figures.

It’ll be really interesting to see the future drop in those figures now that it’s not a hate crime to call a transwoman a man or a trans man a woman. And no longer a hate crime to to use a gender appropriate pronoun.

Removed a lot of hate crime at a stroke.

That’s positive isn’t it?

Lathyrus3

Thanks for the figures.

It’ll be really interesting to see the future drop in those figures now that it’s not a hate crime to call a transwoman a man or a trans man a woman. And no longer a hate crime to to use a gender appropriate pronoun.

Removed a lot of hate crime at a stroke.

That’s positive isn’t it?

I fail to see how that will help, perhaps there will be a rise in mental health crisis and suicide rates. I simply do not know. I rather hope not.

The weaponising of suicide in this debate has been one of the most awful parts of this debates.

Galaxy

The weaponising of suicide in this debate has been one of the most awful parts of this debates.

Do you really believe that? I suppose I can't take that away from you but for me it is a very pertinent concern, one I have had to live with.

The weaponising of suicide in this debate has been one of the most awful parts of this debates. Hasn't it just. It's felt like the blaming of women, for male's problems, just goes on and on and on and on..... And it's always down to women to find a solution. Gah!

It’ll help the figures a lot.

If 50% of reported trans hate crimes are people reporting that someone they have been misgendered by someone saying him or her ie using the correct pronoun for their sex, well actually it was never a crime after all.