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J K Rowling has nailed it - re Starmer and the trans issue

(359 Posts)
Witzend Wed 23-Apr-25 10:09:23

Now he’s changed his mind as to what a woman is, to quote JKR from The Times today, ‘Imagine being such a coward you can only muster the courage to tell the truth once the Supreme Court has ruled on what the truth is.’

Galaxy Fri 25-Apr-25 11:21:05

Oh good god yes. I spent 10 years volunteering for an HIV charity, I absolutely chanted TWAW, I do understand where it comes from.
I will point out that the 'allies' got many many things wrong with regard to HIV campaigning, and a lot of it was a non negotiable mantra. This has been very similar.

Rocknroll5me Fri 25-Apr-25 11:16:33

Yes that bbc revelation was 4 years ago but the bias has not changed. Why? After the Supreme Court ruling no gender critical were interviewed only trans activist playing victim, calling on decades of quiet fortitude!! In fact a 79 year old transsexual with cancer who was frightened of going into hospital for forthcoming operation… how many strings could they play?
The greatest problem is the contradiction between the Supreme Court and the 2010 Equality Act. In which the rights of transgender people are enshrined, where they have rights as well as women’s sex based rights. Culturally the trans are still winning, corporations signed up to stonewall and brainwashed will defy the law and appeal to the various meanings of the Equality Act which will have to be clarified.

Mollygo Fri 25-Apr-25 11:15:49

Well said TerriBull, but I fear your knowledge and understanding will be ignored or rejected by those intent in supporting males, however they appear.

There is lots of evidence of great sympathy for those TW whose lives will be devastated by this ruling especially from women and girls whose lives have been devastated by being cheated out of awards by males, or being faced by a TW who shrieks transphobe when they ask for female support or being told to put up or shut up when going into what were deemed male free spaces, only to find ill-intentioned males there.

Because of the behaviour of those TW males, ill-intentioned will now cover any male who lies his way into a female space, whatever they look like.
Men caused that, but women are still being blamed, even by other women.

Carlotta Fri 25-Apr-25 11:09:44

There's currently a very salient active thread over on Mumsnet that's discussing how their thoughts and beliefs about trans rights when they were "bright young things", changed; and what event or news item was it that brought about that change of opinion. Almost every single poster has said "becoming a parent and realising the implications for them". It's interesting to see how life's events change our young idealistic opinions.

NittWitt Fri 25-Apr-25 11:04:48

There's a spectrum from the flowery delicates to the full on beefy Desperate Dans and everything in between.

Maybe more attention should be drawn to that spectrum. 😁

Carlotta Fri 25-Apr-25 10:59:07

Agree on everything you've said Terribull, that's a perfect summary.

TerriBull Fri 25-Apr-25 10:40:03

baulked bulked

TerriBull Fri 25-Apr-25 10:37:40

Of course not all transwomen are tiny fragile and pretty, and it's a shame in many ways that things have escalated as they have done over the past 20 years, because I suspect "tiny,fragile and pretty" would have slipped in and out of the ladies lavs unnoticed, and would we have cared? I think not. As others have said "that was never going to be enough for those hell bent on confrontation and upping the ante" and whilst telling us women to "budge up and stop being bigots" they have also thrown the quiet non aggressive transwoman under the bus too, but what does that matter when you're fighting the good fight? Rosie, your cartoon perfectly illustrates the tunnel vision that go with people who live in their own bubbles and it doesn't matter how many bright young educated individuals sit round a dinner table and discuss the matter, they were probably never going to be the ones who may have been smacked around on a basket ball court, or expected to be in a locker room along side a 6ft male with broad shoulders and muscle bound calves, being eyed up whilst surreptitiously trying to change without exposing body parts. "Make sure you keep sure you keep your face to the wall cis girls, or go in the toilets to get your kit on and off if you are so bigoted to complain when they, their team mate who is going to thrash them and cheat them out of any first place, leave their lady penis dangling for all to see"

Personally, I can't help thinking I'm more aligned to the school girls knee jerk reaction, maybe not the towering intellect of the chattering classes, but making what could be deemed as a bald statement to Suzie Eddie, or any man who is in girly mode whether it be a temporary whim or permanent on confrontation in a women's loo, with a "you shouldn't be here" Were they fooled by Suzie's jaunty raspberry pink beret, vertiginous heels with a smear of jam like lipstick? Kind of "no" because they/he/she, still to all intents and purposes looked like a geezer, not a fragile flower. And, if you happen to be 14 with some baulked up individual who looks like a man in a dress and makeup in the midst of what should be a female only space, you can't be expected to know, particularly if you are alone, what their intent is. So therein lies the problem, like the rest of the human race, they don't have a one size fits all. There's a spectrum from the flowery delicates to the full on beefy Desperate Dans and everything in between. There seems to be such a lack of deep thinking from so called intelligent people who can make blanket judgements on an older generation of feminists, when they probably haven't a clue of the issues that will have impacted those lives to form opinions, but then again they're probably talking from the perspective of their own echo chamber. As others have pointed out, much of the framing of opposition to the great swathes of nonsense that has been thrust upon us has come from MN, strangely a younger demographic.

Carlotta Fri 25-Apr-25 10:09:03

This should answer your question nanna8

Stonewall’s influence on BBC and Ofcom revealed It's from as far back as 2021 and so a year after Jenny Murray jumped of the ship of madness.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58917227

nanna8 Fri 25-Apr-25 08:44:33

Is that the Biased Broadcasting Corporation?

Cambsnan Fri 25-Apr-25 07:38:13

Maybe the BBC should review how they treated Jennie Murray for expressing the same views as J k Rowling.

Delene100 Fri 25-Apr-25 07:07:59

Oreo

I thought he has always been cowardly on this issue.Others may say he was wise to keep in with the trans activists for their votes🤬
Looking back it was a sort of collective madness that gave support to these angry, entitled misogynists that call themselves activists and I am so glad they have now been put back in their box.

I agree with you 100%. My thoughts too.

Allira Thu 24-Apr-25 23:04:50

Rosie51 Yes, spot on.

Mollygo Thu 24-Apr-25 22:55:30

Superb illustration of the situation Rosie51

Carlotta Thu 24-Apr-25 22:37:17

Perfectly illustrated Rosie51

Allira Thu 24-Apr-25 22:28:42

They largely came to the conclusion that sex/gender is much more fluid and that it is not binary, but on a scale say from the very feminine woman to the very manly woman to trans men , to trans women to very feminine men to very manly They settled however on perhaps 4 classes.

So they were discussing gender, not sex, Whitewave?

I think posters o thi thread understand that this ruling gives clarity on exactly that; and that is what we are discussing.

Rosie51 Thu 24-Apr-25 22:16:30

Privilege is when you think something is not a problem because it's not a problem to you personally.

Carlotta Thu 24-Apr-25 21:43:01

I'm putting good money on betting that none of the 8 young people around the dinner table over the weekend had any professional female sports competitors amongst them. None of them had trained day in, day out, for years on end, only to get to the top podium and be told that the 6 foot bloke, with size 10 feet, huge shoulders and legs twice as strong as hers had beaten her to first prize. No? Thought not.

Oreo Thu 24-Apr-25 21:19:54

Whitewavemark2

What on earth are you talking about!

You clearly lack empathy and understanding.

This intelligent young person seems entirely balanced and happy with her lot, as she works towards her MSc in psychology.

She house-shared with GS, DIL and others and she was totally accepted as a female.

But this person wasn’t female, geddit?
This subject is about so much more than loos!

Oreo Thu 24-Apr-25 21:17:00

Whitewavemark2

I have simply put down some views of 8 young people around the dinner table over the weekend.

I can entirely understand their view that there is much intolerance amongst the older generation, particularly those from a strong feminist background.

Oh come on, they’re young and have no clue what real women have had to fight for over the years.
I find it disturbing that so many young women and girls seem so shallow about looks, all many seem to care about are hair extensions , nails and how their body looks.Many boys and young men now regard them misogynisticly and they too want them to look like porn stars as if that’s all women are good for.
It’s a messed up world.
At least now the madness of people and institutions having to kowtow to ridiculous rules of behaviour around all things trans is hopefully over.Universities were hotbeds of it, another demonstration of the stupidity of young people as well as their academic elders who should have known better.

Oreo Thu 24-Apr-25 21:08:17

Galaxy

Welcome all the new arrivalssmile

😂
Yes we must be kind, at least until they start effing and blinding.

StoneofDestiny Thu 24-Apr-25 20:58:09

Brave women are women who threw themselves in front of horses to get us the vote!

Not sure killing yourself is brave 'to get us the vote'. Rosa Parks and Malala Yousafzai were braver still - living with the consequences of their actions

StoneofDestiny Thu 24-Apr-25 20:44:18

Sounds intelligent to me to wait until the 'matter' is clarified in law before expressing your view, particularly if you are a politician. There are broad principles and morals to stand up for, but in a matter as fluid as what sex you declare yourself as and what nature determined you as I am sure many thoughtful people would want to see what the law determined with all their evidence at hand.
It was easy for people like me to say 'I know what a man or woman is', 'I know what space I need set apart from men, as a woman'. I'm not sure I could speak for the country without further advice.

Carlotta Thu 24-Apr-25 20:36:19

I can entirely understand their view that there is much intolerance amongst the older generation, particularly those from a strong feminist background.

Patronising much?

You really do need to discover what young women are saying about it whitewave; they've been absolutely bloody furious about the abuse of women's spaces, sports and safe spaces for years now. So much so that they have a designated forum specifically for Feminism: Sex and Gender Discussion. There are currently 1037 active threads now, the majority discussing the Supreme Court ruling. The demographic of Mumsnet is around age 31 40 and highly educated users.

Why not widen your horizons and see what women who are affected by this on a daily basis are saying. They make us look like pussycats! grin

Mollygo Thu 24-Apr-25 20:36:18

I must say that talking to my young relatives, and a few of their friends over the weekend, these threads do not reflect what it appears the younger educated people are thinking.
It depends where you are.
According to DD, the 15-16 year olds (mixed) ( but all at grammar schools, so I dare say they count as ^younger educated^) who had a sleepover at DD’s house last weekend said very little about the matter, but the girls did say they were delighted possibly because of their experience at the hands of trans girls (female) at school, that you can’t say you’ve changed sex.
At that, the boys in the group brought up KS’s statement about women having a penis.
I was surprised to hear they had noticed. I’m not sure we listened closely to politicians at that age, but according to DD they found it funny that anyone thought women had a penis, though they didn’t use that word.