J K Rowling has nailed it - re Starmer and the trans issue

According to dd, who has friends in senior positions in e.g. the big banks, it is pretty much compulsory to state your pronouns at the end of every communication, internal or external.

It was in a number of organisations; I objected two years ago to a letter concerning the local Library when the author stated her personal pronouns, and insisted on the library staff doing likewise.
It is true that 'different interpretations' have been enforced by those in positions of authority, who issued instructions on their own initiative without bothering to check the statements in the Equality Act. Those who challenged it were reprimanded or worse,as in the cases of Sandie Peggie and others; when investigated, none of these' policies' quoted existed. This waiting for guidance is completely unnecessary; just more obfuscation. The information has been there for fifteen years and should be applied immediately.
On the matter of lavatories I was thinking of the places I visit, pubs, restaurants, cafes, library, arts centre, theatres, cinemas, village hall, museum, schools, gym, swimming baths, dentist, doctor, supermarkets and all have either one individual loo or several, some doubling as disabled, baby changing rooms or simply better access, no stairs, wider doors, more space.
Smaller shops, train/bus stations I am not sure.

Just waiting for him to apologise to Rosie Duffield but he won’t. Such a coward. JK and others were all so brave.

Galaxy - Good for you. This lunacy has ruined the collection of patient data in the uk just for starters. All fot 0.54% of the population most of whom seem to be rabid fetishists. Neither do I want naked men in the street or prancing around half naked in front of children. So mush is wrong and corrupt with it.

Massive respect for JKR and am not surprised by KS. He wants everyone to like him, he is not brave, when he was a remainer he stood for brexit. You can’t have it all ways. He’s very ambitious with no soul. He would side with the devil if he thought that’s what everybody wanted. He treated Rosie Duffield appallingly and do you remember how ‘women in labour’ weren’t even allowed a stand at conference? This goes for his handmaidens too. They all thought they were on the ‘right side of history’ however much they knew it was nonsense, they wanted to be with the kids with the trendiest with those women with all the threats, because they were men.
And all the wailing by the trans activists on MSM. Can you remember such time given to women when they lost the rights to their own spaces because of their sex? No because no fuss was made. That’s the trouble with most women we just can’t believe that men would push it so that any man who wished to say he was a woman was. By then brave women from mumsnet had to rise up. The trans ideologists spoilt themselves by being greedy, now they will have to back right off.

I do not understand all this furore about Trans peoples. They are a tiny % of our population. Most of you have probably never come across a man/woman who cross dresses, or some man ( or woman ) who has gender dysphoria ? Or not at any length of time probably. Certainly there are only 3 sexes ( male, woman and hermaphrodite ) the latter never mentioned? Why not? The trans peoples are just like us human beings but with a mental and or physical quirk that forces them to be who they are. Why can’t everyone leave them be. The majority are gentle souls who cannot live in what they see as the wrong body. Most accept that Lesbians and Gays exist and live amongst us, why not Trans peoples too? All this fuss about toilets! Certainly there has been the odd criminal element amongst them, but that’s rare in comparison to ‘normal ‘ males or females who commit crimes. I have met many men and women of various persuasions in my lifetime, and at 80 next year I would probably prefer to chat to a trans person in a toilet than some of the disgustingly behaved ‘normal’ young people!
JK Rowling books are great, her stance on this topic less so in my opinion! As for confirming into law what is common sense … and changing his opinion to go along with the push of the day… Starmer does not have my respect. Leave them alone!
As said I am 80 next year and a white heterosexual with 2 sons.

KellsBells123456

Fuck off. I’m a trans woman and it’s disgusting. My daughter loved Harry Potter. We’ve been to Universal Studios 5 times. It’s ironic she’s become the Voldemort in my story. Well done playing the villain who attacks those who are vulnerable, special, and yes…women !

Hear hear. It’s a sad thing that is happening to you and yours.

Which posters on here are you cheering someone saying fuck off to.

Bridie22

P.S. Thanks to JK Rowling and all the brave women who helped this ruling to finally become law, you are all awesome.

Brave women who … !
Stupid women aggravating a minor issue more like! Brave women are women who threw themselves in front of horses to get us the vote!
So much smoke for a match!

The majority are gentle souls who cannot live in what they see as the wrong body.

Yes, we know and no-one on this thread has said anything different, at least not as far as I can tell.

The problem is the aggressive trans-activists, those who are misogynists, taking advantage of situations to push their own agenda.

They are men, there will be nice ones and not so nice ones. Telling people they are in the wrong body is cruelty beyond words. And for those who don't believe in souls absolute nonsense.

suelld

Bridie22

P.S. Thanks to JK Rowling and all the brave women who helped this ruling to finally become law, you are all awesome.

Brave women who … !
Stupid women aggravating a minor issue more like! Brave women are women who threw themselves in front of horses to get us the vote!
So much smoke for a match!

Such aggression on the thread all of a sudden.
Rather proves the point.

Carlotta

I'm genuinely sorry that your daughter is so upset Shirls5200 but feel that your anger should be directed at the men who have abused transgender women by insisting that obvious males infiltrated women's spaces. Public toilets are only one small part of the problem that women have faced; rape crisis centres, prison cells, women's safe houses, changing rooms and women's sports. It's true, and acknowledged, that people like your daughter just want to live their chosen life in peace and quiet, causing problems for no one. Regrettably, a huge number of men abused the privileges that people like your daughter, and all natal women, no longer feel safe using. It's not us you should be angry with.

Yes Carlotta

If anyone reads this or any other threads about this subject they will find posters expressing concern and worries about the impact on those trans who want to live peacefully.

Far more posts like that in fact than I have ever seen from trans, parents of trans, friends and family who are trans, expressing concern for women who have been damaged, traumatised, threatened, cancelled etc because of those trans who see it as an opportunity to cause the aforementioned problems.

Numerous posters have assured us that you can’t tell the difference, as if that makes it better, when in fact some of those who are against women’s rights go out of their way to look how they ^think women look like so if we can’t tell the difference, how do we know if they’re going to be harmful or not.

The only way round that is that men and women should stop lying that they are the opposite sex. If you’re trans, be trans.

As heart rending for those trans who mean no harm as it has been and will continue to be for women, all because if the actions of men, however they identify.

I fear this ruling will stir up hate . Why does Keir Starmer have to defend his views - in agreement or not- ?He just has to uphold the law but as the supreme court sated, this ruling does not stop the need to treat all people with dignity.
I wonder why JK Rowling has such a bee in her bonnet about this subject ?

Wyllow3

Carlotta

PMQs this afternoon have been lively.

Does the prime minister now accept that when he said that it was the law that trans women were women, he was wrong?"referencing the Labour leader's previous comments.

Starmer didn't directly answer the question, but said he welcomes the Supreme Court's ruling.

Still hedging his bets.

On a subject as contested as this maybe best to look at the whole quote ?

Here's the PMQ in full

Badenoch said

"Does the prime minister now accept that when he said that it was the law that trans women were women, he was wrong"

Starmer replied

Let me be clear, I welcome the Supreme Court ruling on this issue. It brings clarity and it will give confidence to women and, of course, to service providers.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission will now issue updated guidance, and it is important that that happens and that all service providers then act accordingly.

This government’s approach, and my approach, has been as follows: to support and implement the supreme court ruling, and we will, to continue to protect single-sex spaces based on biological sex, and we will, but also to ensure that trans people are treated with respect, and we will, and to ensure that everybody is given dignity in their everyday lives

I do think this is the time now to lower the temperature, to move forward, and to conduct this debate with the care and compassion that it deserves. And I think that should unite the whole house.

Thank you Wyllow3 for giving the full quote.
NOTE. To All you Trans haters, he said …

“ we will, but also to ensure that trans people are treated with respect, and we will, and to ensure that everybody is given dignity in their everyday lives “

Why not follow that example instead of all the visciousness that issues from some peoples mouths!

Carlotta

I'm genuinely sorry that your daughter is so upset Shirls5200 but feel that your anger should be directed at the men who have abused transgender women by insisting that obvious males infiltrated women's spaces. Public toilets are only one small part of the problem that women have faced; rape crisis centres, prison cells, women's safe houses, changing rooms and women's sports. It's true, and acknowledged, that people like your daughter just want to live their chosen life in peace and quiet, causing problems for no one. Regrettably, a huge number of men abused the privileges that people like your daughter, and all natal women, no longer feel safe using. It's not us you should be angry with.

Carlotta
Yes, the few have ruined it for the rest who just want to go about their lives peaceably.

Welcome all the new arrivals

Shirls52000

I am si disappointed by this thread and some of the hatred and vitriol being displayed. As mum to a trans woman who is now sitting at home distressed beyond measure because she feels unable to go out and socialise with her friends as she’s no longer allowed to go to the ladies, she must go to the gents and risk being abused or worse. This is not a victory for women’s rights, what about the many many women who may look less than feminine, they are also now going to be challenged when simply wanting to go for a wee. One of the anti trans activists Nicola Murray has been found guilty of the worst type of child abuse, and my daughter is crying at home because people like Nicola Murray are accusing her of wanting to abuse women in toilets, you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Do you really think she would have chosen to be transgender, of course not, I sincerely hope none of your families end up feeling body/gender dysmorphia, heaven help them if they do, it took enormous courage for her to come out as transgender and now she feels as though her life is worthless, well done, I hope you re proud. Yes I m angry, there have been transgender women around for years using women’s toilets with no problems, thus has been a recently manufactured issue, probably to cover up something else and had set back women’s rights enormously, not to mention the fact that there may now be transgender men wanting to use the ladies as they were born female or even men pretending they are transgender in order to access ladies toilets, it’s been nothing short of cruel to a vulnerable minority group in the UK shame on you all

I truly feel for your daughter Shirls52000 and I understand your anger, as her mother. I hope the hate and vitriol shown to trans people by some will lessen over time. At the moment there is a sense of ‘victory’ for some women - not all feel that same sense by any means. Some of us feel deeply uncomfortable and conflicted about the whole situation.

Your daughter is lucky to have you to support her and I’m sure her friends will be there for her too. She may feel sad and even afraid right now, but she’s obviously strong, as she’s already been through a lot. I really hope she’s able to go out, with her head held high, and face the world as who she is.

Stay strong💐

Starmer has to defend his views because he is a lawyer and is expected to tell the truth, and has not done so.
J.K.Rowling has 'a bee in her bonnet' because for years she has been verbally abused and threatened for expressing perfectly legal views.
I was not aware that trans people were not being treated with dignity. Rather, look at the protesters in Parliament Square and see what women have been subjected to, for far too long.

It is also because she has fought for female victims of domestic abuse for years.

Galaxy

Welcome all the new arrivals

Yes, it’s good to get a range of view points isn’t it

It's not about the trans people only - it's all those who are born intersex... what will happen now? All those of you who are lauding this decision obviously do not have any intersex people in their family.

Yes we have been through all this before on MN Lizzie, always fun.

suelld
^ Thank you Wyllow3 for giving the full quote.^
NOTE. To All you Trans haters, he said …

There are no trans haters on GN.

the killers of Brianna Ghey ( sorry if mis-spelt) felt justified as she was nor born female. In a professional capacity, I've seen a lot of hatred towards trans people. To be fair, I've also seen acceptance. This ruling is not helping any acceptance .
Women have the ability to go into cubicles in public toilets , so why is there such fear ?
Trans issues are very different to issues about domestic abuse - hence I still don't understand why JK Rowling is so incensed.

I never understand why those who say that biological sex is a fact, and that a woman is an adult human female, should be seen as anti trans.

I for one certainly am not. I just want women-only spaces, such as changing rooms, to remain as such, and for biological males, especially those who have the great physical advantage of having gone through puberty, to compete only in male sports.