J K Rowling has nailed it - re Starmer and the trans issue

I have simply put down some views of 8 young people around the dinner table over the weekend.

I can entirely understand their view that there is much intolerance amongst the older generation, particularly those from a strong feminist background.

LizzieDrip when I questioned you when you referred to the transman engaged to a relative of mine as 'she' you said you were always consistent and yet I notice you refer to Shirls52000's transwoman daughter as she and her. Not so consistent after all then

I’m clearly a bad person Rosie. Shoot me!

Yes those awful feminists.

LizzieDrip No I don't go in for violence but I wonder why the totally different approaches?

Ellemo, I don't want your request to get lost in this madness but you need to start a new thread and then I am sure someone will help you.

Mollygo, thank you for sharing the article. I was able to access it so didn’t realise some people would encounter a paywall.

Galaxy, Jeni Harvey is a gender critical feminist who has been speaking out so I’m not sure where your comment is coming from?

Viva Rosie51 I say.
As for the ‘younger more educated ones’ don’t make me laugh. They just aren’t thinking. They think it’s kind and inclusive - look how the trans ideologists have captured all those words. When push comes to shove, however inelegant, people with penises have to be separated from those without in certain public spaces where they are vulnerable. For such obvious reasons. Rape is defined by penile penetration.
So people born of a sex that sexual stereotypes ( gender ) do not conform, well, fight your corner. The pink / blue of the trans lobby says it all. Crude Stereotypes of femininity and masculinity. These must be broadened as bodies of both sexes vary greatly. Just don’t believe that has anything to do with the sex you were born as.
Don’t trans away the gay. And don’t allow men who get a sexual thrill out of being a pornified feminine sex object themselves get into women’s spaces. They have always existed but they should keep their desires under wraps as they are harmful to others. Basically trans activists have spoilt their own cause by being greedy, never being respectful to women.
One of the main responsibilities that come to men because of their superior rights is to step up, protect and care for women. Not all women want this or need it but many do. Basically you can’t have it all ways. Men are used to having their own way. It is a man’s world and women are still needing to fight for equality. This does not mean being the same. Different equal. Women have fought hard and won a lot of equality rights in the past 50 years. We needed them. They are not for the taking by men who have never been deprived of them.
You have to do the best with the sex you are born with, you had no choice, anymore than when or where, you were born. Be proud of your body, nurture it, respect it, do it no harm, it is a gift …as is life.

But isn't it just the same oh but some of them are embracing the right, I don't really like the divisive stuff that has happened between groups within the gender critical umbrella.

I must say that talking to my young relatives, and a few of their friends over the weekend, these threads do not reflect what it appears the younger educated people are thinking.
It depends where you are.
According to DD, the 15-16 year olds (mixed) ( but all at grammar schools, so I dare say they count as ^younger educated^) who had a sleepover at DD’s house last weekend said very little about the matter, but the girls did say they were delighted possibly because of their experience at the hands of trans girls (female) at school, that you can’t say you’ve changed sex.
At that, the boys in the group brought up KS’s statement about women having a penis.
I was surprised to hear they had noticed. I’m not sure we listened closely to politicians at that age, but according to DD they found it funny that anyone thought women had a penis, though they didn’t use that word.

I can entirely understand their view that there is much intolerance amongst the older generation, particularly those from a strong feminist background.

Patronising much?

You really do need to discover what young women are saying about it whitewave; they've been absolutely bloody furious about the abuse of women's spaces, sports and safe spaces for years now. So much so that they have a designated forum specifically for Feminism: Sex and Gender Discussion. There are currently 1037 active threads now, the majority discussing the Supreme Court ruling. The demographic of Mumsnet is around age 31 40 and highly educated users.

Why not widen your horizons and see what women who are affected by this on a daily basis are saying. They make us look like pussycats!

Sounds intelligent to me to wait until the 'matter' is clarified in law before expressing your view, particularly if you are a politician. There are broad principles and morals to stand up for, but in a matter as fluid as what sex you declare yourself as and what nature determined you as I am sure many thoughtful people would want to see what the law determined with all their evidence at hand.
It was easy for people like me to say 'I know what a man or woman is', 'I know what space I need set apart from men, as a woman'. I'm not sure I could speak for the country without further advice.

Brave women are women who threw themselves in front of horses to get us the vote!

Not sure killing yourself is brave 'to get us the vote'. Rosa Parks and Malala Yousafzai were braver still - living with the consequences of their actions

Galaxy

Welcome all the new arrivals

😂
Yes we must be kind, at least until they start effing and blinding.

Whitewavemark2

I have simply put down some views of 8 young people around the dinner table over the weekend.

I can entirely understand their view that there is much intolerance amongst the older generation, particularly those from a strong feminist background.

Oh come on, they’re young and have no clue what real women have had to fight for over the years.
I find it disturbing that so many young women and girls seem so shallow about looks, all many seem to care about are hair extensions , nails and how their body looks.Many boys and young men now regard them misogynisticly and they too want them to look like porn stars as if that’s all women are good for.
It’s a messed up world.
At least now the madness of people and institutions having to kowtow to ridiculous rules of behaviour around all things trans is hopefully over.Universities were hotbeds of it, another demonstration of the stupidity of young people as well as their academic elders who should have known better.

Whitewavemark2

What on earth are you talking about!

You clearly lack empathy and understanding.

This intelligent young person seems entirely balanced and happy with her lot, as she works towards her MSc in psychology.

She house-shared with GS, DIL and others and she was totally accepted as a female.

But this person wasn’t female, geddit?
This subject is about so much more than loos!

I'm putting good money on betting that none of the 8 young people around the dinner table over the weekend had any professional female sports competitors amongst them. None of them had trained day in, day out, for years on end, only to get to the top podium and be told that the 6 foot bloke, with size 10 feet, huge shoulders and legs twice as strong as hers had beaten her to first prize. No? Thought not.

Privilege is when you think something is not a problem because it's not a problem to you personally.

They largely came to the conclusion that sex/gender is much more fluid and that it is not binary, but on a scale say from the very feminine woman to the very manly woman to trans men , to trans women to very feminine men to very manly They settled however on perhaps 4 classes.

So they were discussing gender, not sex, Whitewave?

I think posters o thi thread understand that this ruling gives clarity on exactly that; and that is what we are discussing.

Perfectly illustrated Rosie51

Superb illustration of the situation Rosie51

Rosie51 Yes, spot on.

Oreo

I thought he has always been cowardly on this issue.Others may say he was wise to keep in with the trans activists for their votes🤬
Looking back it was a sort of collective madness that gave support to these angry, entitled misogynists that call themselves activists and I am so glad they have now been put back in their box.

I agree with you 100%. My thoughts too.

Maybe the BBC should review how they treated Jennie Murray for expressing the same views as J k Rowling.

Is that the Biased Broadcasting Corporation?

This should answer your question nanna8

Stonewall’s influence on BBC and Ofcom revealed It's from as far back as 2021 and so a year after Jenny Murray jumped of the ship of madness.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58917227