Israel to "conquer" Gaza

Those poor children, growing up shunted from pillar to post, drones & missiles overhead for 18 months of their childhood.No security, not knowing where they're going to sleep each night or if they'll be blown up, never getting quite enough to eat. That's the luckier ones who haven't been orphaned or injured.
I know children are suffering in other parts of the world but I feel more involved with this as UK and Israel are allies.
Blaming Hamas can't exonerate Israel, whose actions are the direct cause of this suffering.

Give it a few years - until the surviving and traumatised children are old enough, and a shiny, new Hamas will flourish.

I’m convinced that 2 of the unholy trinity - Trump & Netanyahu - will be banking on a further money-making scheme. This will be possible due to most of the coastline of Gaza being emptied but then razed and turned into expensive resorts, developed to further fill the coffers of these tyrants. Trump is obsessed with lining his own pockets and he won’t be content with what he can squeeze out of Ukraine and its minerals.

valdavi

Those poor children, growing up shunted from pillar to post, drones & missiles overhead for 18 months of their childhood.No security, not knowing where they're going to sleep each night or if they'll be blown up, never getting quite enough to eat. That's the luckier ones who haven't been orphaned or injured.
I know children are suffering in other parts of the world but I feel more involved with this as UK and Israel are allies.
Blaming Hamas can't exonerate Israel, whose actions are the direct cause of this suffering.

Some older Gransnetters or their relatives will remember just what that is like, especially this week.

I wish there would be an end to it soon but I can't see it happening. Hamas and the Israeli Government are both intransigent and seem determined not to give way, regardless of all the suffering.

Hamas started the war, they still have hostages, up to them

One commentator this evening has said Hammas is all but finished and what you will see now is an insurgency- just small groups fighting until there's nothing left.

It isnt clear if any of the remaining hostages are still alive and some may well have been killed by the IDF.

I also cannot understand how the mainly secular population of Israel can still be supporting this war, surely they can't all claim ignorance of what is happening?

What happened today was not necessary. I'm quoting from CNN

Israeli airstrike on central Gaza school compound housing displaced people kills 22, as military operation intensifies

This is a hospital officials report.

"At least 22 people, including seven children, were killed Tuesday in an Israeli strike on a school compound sheltering thousands of displaced people in the Al Bureij camp in central Gaza, hospital officials said.

Dozens more were injured in the strike, they said.

At the site of the attack, video from the scene showed a large crater where people searched through the rubble of the school for survivors, the remnants of tents and belongings littering the ground."

"Israel’s blockade, which has prevented the entry of food and medicine, is pushing the Gaza’s ravaged healthcare system towards collapse, aid agencies have warned.

Near the site of the latest Israeli strike, a woman hugged her crying daughter, saying that all her daughter’s friends were killed.

“My friend Leen is gone, my friend Yousra is gone, my friend Miral is gone,” the daughter said as tears streamed down her face."

Its possible there were Hamas there because one woman screamed "At the school compound, one woman screamed at Hamas, an expression of anger at Gaza’s ruling militants once virtually unthinkable. “Hamas should get out of the school, they are hiding between the people,” she cried. “Get them out, what’s the fault of the children who are torn apart?”

But is it necessary to kill children, is it really?

Hospital officials say, they would wouldn’t they ? Hamas controls the hospitals , we read often of doctors and nurses, doctors gave the first reports after 7th October 2023.

foxie48

Rubbish*David*. The Israelis are not suffering like the Gazans, Americans, living in Montana or Florida didn't suffer like the Vietnamese, the Iraqis, the Afghans etc. In the first and second WW, British civilians didn't starve or get trench foot! The Americans destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki but Japanese civilians living on other islands were largely unaffected. Everyone in Gaza is affected by this war. Every single human in Gaza, whether they support Hamas or not and they cannot escape the bombs and the relentless violence.

All the countries I mentioned have taken part in genocidal acts against civilians populations, add to that number China and other smaller scale wars.
No Israel hasn’t suffered on the same scale but nor did the US or UK because neither were occupied in WW2 but they were deliberately targeting civilians in Germany and Japan to break morale.

David49 civilians living in the Uk were regularly bombed during WW2. I don’t understand the argument.

The argument that civilian deaths are just collateral of a war completely underplays the violence and destruction inflicted on Gaza.
The argument that hospitals are legitimate targets has been refuted time and time again by volunteer doctors who are not Palestinian, not Muslim and most certainly not Hamas operatives or sympathisers.
Israel is committing war crimes and the excuse that it's necessary, normal in war or justified just does not alter that fact! Inhuman treatment of others cannot be justified regardless of the argument that "Hamas started it first".

Refuted by. Doctors who are known not to be Hamas
operatives or supporters !

When UK Bombed Dresden !

The scale of destruction is exactly the same as that inflicted on Germany, Japan, China, Russia and many other occupied nations, it is still happening in Myanmar and Sudan as well as Gaza today, with hundreds of thousands displaced, there are no clean wars.
Foreign aid workers and journalists put themselves in harms way, it’s their choice and they take the risk, no sympathy from me. As for the UN they have been complicit in sustaining Hamas, providing Hamas with food to distribute as they chose, of course Gazans supported Hamas they controlled the food without the UN the war would have been over long ago.

foxie every doctor who works in Gaza and speaks are known
to not be operatives or sympathisers of Hamas ? How is this
known ?

foxie48

The argument that civilian deaths are just collateral of a war completely underplays the violence and destruction inflicted on Gaza.
The argument that hospitals are legitimate targets has been refuted time and time again by volunteer doctors who are not Palestinian, not Muslim and most certainly not Hamas operatives or sympathisers.
Israel is committing war crimes and the excuse that it's necessary, normal in war or justified just does not alter that fact! Inhuman treatment of others cannot be justified regardless of the argument that "Hamas started it first".

Thanks foxie48 for your posts on this and similar threads.

I dislike the way what’s happening to Palestinians is compared to the Holocaust. Palestinians don’t wear badges made by the Israeli government, they aren’t subjected to attacks in the street, carted off to concentration camps with the aim of killing every Jew on earth. Hamas did indeed ‘start it’ but for pity’s sake how can destroying Gaza and killing children, parents, civilians be a reasonable or in any way justified response.

The destruction of schools and hospitals, the demand that people move to ‘a safe area’ is simply shocking. The Israeli government is guaranteeing the rise of Hamas. And sadly, fuelling the rise of anti semitism

Egypt has already taken thousands of refugees from Syria. It can neither afford to take Palestinians nor does it want to give Hamas any chance to move in and de-stabilise Egypt

Always been antisemitism, blaming the rise on Jews is not acceptable, said sadly or with glee.

Annie There have been numerous interviews and articles by doctors in a variety of international media including this one in the Lancet.
www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02403-0/fulltext
Doctors have had a long history of using leave to go to parts of the world where they can share their skills and help to "prop up" health care in poor countries or areas of conflict. To suggest they do it to support terrorism is actually not worthy of a reply!
David Your comment "Foreign aid workers and journalists put themselves in harms way, it’s their choice and they take the risk, no sympathy from me." is IMO beyond cynical. I am very grateful that there are many people who are humanitarian and value the truth. It is usual practice in war zones for humanitarian workers and journalists to be given as much protection as is possible and for them not to be "targeted". Sadly the IDF does not seem to observe the usual rules of war.
cpj.org/2025/02/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/

I never open links unless i can refuse all cookies

Yes there is a need for doctors in war zones, I do not accept
all are assessed by politics and/or faith , you consider my views
unworthy, your choice .

Using "collateral damage" as an excuse for what is now happening is a weak excuse and an avoidance for not looking at whats happening in any given situation, it's specifics.

"Oh look over there" avoids "what's happening here and what is the best way through"

If you call it all collateral damage then was October 23rd "collateral damage"? No way imo, but thats the logic being followed by those arguing it.

October 23rd , why ?

Sorry Annie, October 7th.

Anniebach

foxie every doctor who works in Gaza and speaks are known
to not be operatives or sympathisers of Hamas ? How is this
known ?

To dismiss all the reports from doctors because you believe that they are really Hamas operatives or sympathisers is one way of looking at it, I suppose. Best to consider what is happening to be fake news if the reality of what Israel is doing is too painful.

Best you read posts before replying, I never said all doctors , I do believe some . I don’t tell you to consider what read, please give me the same respect

“It is usual practice in war zones for humanitarian workers and journalists to be given as much protection as is possible and for them not to be "targeted". Sadly the IDF does not seem to observe the usual rules of war.”

Most reporting from war zones is biased in one way or another, the BBC is as guilty as others. The only effective weapon that Hamas has had is propaganda, they have made good use of it with biased reporting.
It’s notable that the media coming back fearuter women and children killed and injured rarely combatants or men, they are safe in the tunnels beneath the school or hospital.

Wyllow3

Using "collateral damage" as an excuse for what is now happening is a weak excuse and an avoidance for not looking at whats happening in any given situation, it's specifics.

"Oh look over there" avoids "what's happening here and what is the best way through"

If you call it all collateral damage then was October 23rd "collateral damage"? No way imo, but thats the logic being followed by those arguing it.

Why on earth would the murdered Israeli families and young people be considered anything other than murder on a massive scale? There was no war with Israel from Gaza on October 7 th
So your point about collateral damage is downright silly.

Hamas it’s Always been women and children, posts speak of mothers and children, I am constantly asked my views on
deaths of mothers and children, I have questioned where are
the men ? they were present when the Israeli hostages were released, in their droves and mocking the hostages.
They did the same last year when a naked corpse of a hostage
was driven around Gaza.