Reform activists depict female cabinet ministers as cows in abattoir.

“Andrew Perloff is a climate change denier who blames rising inflation on climate policies. So why isn’t David Miliband depicted in the tableau?”

There are an awful lot of people would agree with that opinion, Milliband is probably the least like Labour politician, I accept that there needs to be action to reduce CO2 but we are not, emissions are increasing globally. All the UK is doing is greenwashing, replacing emissions with imports from China and others that are still burning coal.

It has cost us hundreds of billions and destroyed our productive capacity, is it the cause of inflation?, it hasn’t helped for sure. At least we now have a PM that recognizes that we have to earn our life style.

It isn’t a criminal offence to cause ‘distress’ or offence.

Yes it is when it's done in public. This is why we have a Public Order Act.

Section 5 Public Order Act 1986

1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a) uses threatening or abusive words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening or abusive,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

This was done in a public place - outside major Reform donor Andrew Perloff's Elstree home on the A411.

In that case we can expect his arrest and being charged then?
Doubtful.

😖Ed Miliband! I wish Starmer would demote him to the dept of counting paperclips before he can ruin us all.

A consequence of these crass stunts and letting them pass by without criticism and leaders not taking responsibility for them just increases the number of people who say "they're all the same why bother to vote"

And this stunt was a clear choice to attack women politicians specifically.
Putting forward a POV women have to tolerate high levels of abuse excusing this stunt as trivial needs calling out here or anywhere else.

Oreo

In that case we can expect his arrest and being charged then?
Doubtful.

Yes, doubtful, but well worth publicising this oaf's output as unless its condemned by Reform Leaders he become another example of what lies behind the respectable facade. Farage may laugh it off but really he cant want it as part of the Reform image, they do suspend people.

Silverbrooks

^It isn’t a criminal offence to cause ‘distress’ or offence.^

Yes it is when it's done in public. This is why we have a Public Order Act.

Section 5 Public Order Act 1986

1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a) uses threatening or abusive words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening or abusive,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

This was done in a public place - outside major Reform donor Andrew Perloff's Elstree home on the A411.

That may be correct but it’s widely ignored, it would be a great step forward those abusing police or politicians were prosecuted on every occasion. Like many “crimes” it’s deemed not in the public interest

Swearing at a police officer attracted a £100 fixed penalty, libel on social media £200, that would improve standards.

Of course, unless someone makes a formal complaint in which case Perloff could be prosecuted and fined.

Just because a law isn't enforced it doesn't mean the offence didn't take place.

My last was to Oreo.

I agree that the police should enforce the Public Order Act more - a few on-the-spot fines for the kinds of public disorder that have become commonplace. I am tired of not being able to walk down the High Street without hearing offensive language.

Similarly, The Malicious Communications Act 1988 is little used other than in recent high profile cases to do with last year's riots.

You do see cases where celebrities sue another party for libel or slander but they are civil cases and cost millions to take to court

I'm not talking about libel or slander but the kind of behaviour that is ... indecent or grossly offensive which ... cause(s) distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

Malicious Communications Act 1988

Social media is full of strangers hurling abuse at one another. X has become an absolute cesspit since Musk took it over. Impossible to voice an opinion on anything without abusive name calling.

I just think realistically - prosecute when its possible to try and stem this tide of diminishing or normalising violent mockery - not give up - in this case it would be good to make an example of it and draw that line, since laws do apply: yes a tide seems to be sweeping over from the USA we don't want here.
Like the US pre-election oft repeated claim that undocumented people "Eat cats and dogs" was not only allowed but repeated.

Silverbrooks

I'm not talking about libel or slander but the kind of behaviour that is ... indecent or grossly offensive which ... cause(s) distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

Malicious Communications Act 1988

Social media is full of strangers hurling abuse at one another. X has become an absolute cesspit since Musk took it over. Impossible to voice an opinion on anything without abusive name calling.

I'm sure you know the issue here as well as I do. It's integral to the "free speech" debate and whether people have a right to be offended.

The concern is that if something like this "abbatoir" stunt were to be prosecuted, there would be some very vocal people who would claim the protesters are just "woke" and can't take a joke. There's a groundswell of people who endorse this kind of thinking.

I'm not sure what the answer is. IMO it must never become normalised, but I'm not sure that those of use who find it offensive have found the right ammunition yet.

It’s realistic, police carry body cameras, schoolrooms have CCTV it’s easy to implement, but it won’t, so it’s just going to get worse.

Silverbrooks

Of course, unless someone makes a formal complaint in which case Perloff could be prosecuted and fined.

Just because a law isn't enforced it doesn't mean the offence didn't take place.

Maybe make people aware who was behind it and his association with Reform. I expect there are people who agree with the sentiment and find it funny (unfortunately).

Nevertheless, when people put their cross against a Reform candidate on a ballot paper, they need to know what kind of person is financing them, maybe ask themselves whether this is really the kind of person who is likely to stand up for the "little guys".

David49

It’s realistic, police carry body cameras, schoolrooms have CCTV it’s easy to implement, but it won’t, so it’s just going to get worse.

I've never known a classroom with CCTV. Teachers get abused every day and, unfortunately, some sections of the media support the pupils and parents. It's more likely that teachers lose it after being provoked and pupils video any outbursts on their phones. The same is true of GPs, council officers and all sorts of public servants.

I am in classrooms nearly every day, in areas with considerable problems, no CCTV in any of them.

Galaxy

I am in classrooms nearly every day, in areas with considerable problems, no CCTV in any of them.

I've known CCTV in corridors, but that's it.

Might improve behavior of pupils.

Wyllow3

I just think realistically - prosecute when its possible to try and stem this tide of diminishing or normalising violent mockery - not give up - in this case it would be good to make an example of it and draw that line, since laws do apply: yes a tide seems to be sweeping over from the USA we don't want here.
Like the US pre-election oft repeated claim that undocumented people "Eat cats and dogs" was not only allowed but repeated.

It depends how much we want this to be a place of constant litigation.There are more than enough prosecutions as it is.
Should we make a crime of all we disapprove of? I wouldn’t want that.I may not like people I pass in the High St effing and blinding but I really don’t want on the spot fines for it either.
Here we are on this planet spinning around in space and we do need some rules so it isn’t complete anarchy but I don’t want to live in a Big Brother kind of society.
There seems to be quite a lot of the ‘it shouldn’t be allowed’ attitudes when most of the time, yes it should be allowed and it’s ok if some are offended/ disapprove.
The more oxygen of publicly is pumped in to the Reform antics the worse it will be and yes, a lot of people will think it’s amusing, not here on this forum but in the wider world.

David49

Might improve behavior of pupils.

Might protect teacher and help other children learn more.

I’m not sure if UK schools have the worst reputation for behavior in the world but I do know many have a reputation far better some third word nations too.

But as you are all satisfied that it has sunk so low that’s fine.

I don't think school classrooms are allowed to use CCTV to monitor children's behaviour; it was suggested some years ago in an attempt to show parents how their children actually behaved, but was strictly forbidden.

I'm returning to the O/P subject matter and as regards prosecution and the benefits or otherwise of using the law in this kind of situation I think its a moderation in all things.

Enough prosecutions to make clear what boundaries are to the public without turning it into a constant litigation situation, or a situation that makes politics all about publicity stunts that that away consideration of policy.
Picking on female politicians and abattoirs is nasty stuff imo and worthy of debate, publicity, at least asking Party leaders to condemn it.

eazybee

I don't think school classrooms are allowed to use CCTV to monitor children's behaviour; it was suggested some years ago in an attempt to show parents how their children actually behaved, but was strictly forbidden.

Well we have got what we wanted, we want them to behave as adults when they have no concept discipline at 18.
Of course the parents that do care about behavior give their children a big advantage, only for the system to do its best I do that.

David49

It’s realistic, police carry body cameras, schoolrooms have CCTV it’s easy to implement, but it won’t, so it’s just going to get worse.

Surely most parents would object to their children being filmed in their classroom?

Some looked-after children are not allowed to be photographed for safety reasons.