Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

So a ban on all covering garments? Yes I would like to ban those silly dryrobe things and beanie hats.

I concur.

There are occasions when it's sensible to cover/obscure the face. Riding a motorbike; playing cricket or ice hockey, performing surgery. Major outbreaks of infectious disease.

Otherwise, I reckon burkas, hoodies, baseball caps and Superman masks have all had their day .

Dry robes and beanie hats still show a face, eyes, intent.

Any update on " these people" please?

Sure lafergar. ‘These’ is used for a collective noun so ‘these people’. If it were one it would be that person. Clear enough for you?

From a young age we learn a lot from facial expressions and I think this is why some of us feel uncomfortable with people wearing burqas. We respond to facial expressions and can learn whether this person is safe or not.
I was passing a young woman in the street once and her face was contorted with hatred. She was glaring at me and scowling. I was instantly alert averted my eyes and walked on quickly.
We are a tolerant country and what the burqa stands for is the subjugation of women so not in our country's ethics so on reflection we should ban it.

woodenspoon

I think what value do these people bring to the UK? Nothing as far as I can see. Just problems.

"These people" are all individual human beings. Start with that humanity, the basics, what a person is like.

They may contribute much or little to our society. They may be warm.. loving.. angry and hating or in between in different ways.
Often it isn't the culture that is "different", its the character.

Any toxic behaviour from any group is anathema. - be very careful - it could be from the so called "us" in the "us and them".
And you dont need to go far into social media to find real, toxic, life threatening behaviour from "us".

Be open? take people as they come, not the label.

So do we just take women covered up like draped faceless statues whether or not they want to be?

Well we can all chip in but I feel I 've addressed that already upthread as have others.

woodenspoon I have been very grateful to "these people" when I was going through my cancer treatment and recently when I had a bad fall. What use are they? Invaluable!

Wyllow3

woodenspoon

I think what value do these people bring to the UK? Nothing as far as I can see. Just problems.

"These people" are all individual human beings. Start with that humanity, the basics, what a person is like.

They may contribute much or little to our society. They may be warm.. loving.. angry and hating or in between in different ways.
Often it isn't the culture that is "different", its the character.

Any toxic behaviour from any group is anathema. - be very careful - it could be from the so called "us" in the "us and them".
And you dont need to go far into social media to find real, toxic, life threatening behaviour from "us".

Be open? take people as they come, not the label.

Hmmm very saintly. But you can’t tell what a person is like if you can’t see their face. Or can you? As you say warm, loving, angry etc but how could you possibly tell. You must enlighten us Wyllow.

woodenspoon

Wyllow3

woodenspoon

I think what value do these people bring to the UK? Nothing as far as I can see. Just problems.

"These people" are all individual human beings. Start with that humanity, the basics, what a person is like.

They may contribute much or little to our society. They may be warm.. loving.. angry and hating or in between in different ways.
Often it isn't the culture that is "different", its the character.

Any toxic behaviour from any group is anathema. - be very careful - it could be from the so called "us" in the "us and them".
And you dont need to go far into social media to find real, toxic, life threatening behaviour from "us".

Be open? take people as they come, not the label.

Hmmm very saintly. But you can’t tell what a person is like if you can’t see their face. Or can you? As you say warm, loving, angry etc but how could you possibly tell. You must enlighten us Wyllow.

I realise the last post was on the idealistic side deliberately to try and shake what I perceive to be a negative out look as regards how all our society functions.

Its a tiny, tiny minority wear a burka, and not necessarily the sort shown on the photos upthread, where the most covered faces were shown not burkas with openness around the eyes.

You cant work in key areas with a face covering anyway: use of burkas is declining: as pointed out by many, there are other forms of face covering worn from all cultures: this has all ben said, but a simple answer, is to meet people and talk, find what we have in common, not divides.

Obviously not burkas, but often I'm aware (studied Art/comparative. cultures/uni level...talked with Iran female friend - of the richness of other cultures, to enjoy, to learn.

petra

Some time ago I was in the waiting room of the gynae department.
With me in that department was a married couple from Afghanistan. The man was dressed in the traditional Afghan pakoi ( hat) and a shawl.
His wife had on the full burqa the women wear in Afghanistan.
It was a very odd encounter in a small room.
They went in before me and all I could think of was that poor woman was being examined by a male gynaecologist with ( I presume) her husband translating.

The woman could request a female clinician, many do. As for translating, some nhs trusts insist on their own translator . With a family member , the clinician can’t be 100% sure the family member fully understands the health situation, which can lead to serious mistakes .

In a word - "It's Britain - so yes".

When I lived in Norway, my local indoor shopping centre banned anyone wearing a hoodie / scarf as face covering.

Of course they could wear the hoodie garment, but they were not allowed to cover their head and face with it.

... and motor cyclists were asked to remove their helmets when entering the indoor parade of shops. Most did anyway - it must be steamy and uncomfortable inside them. But there were individuals making a quick dash in and out who kept them on.

There had not been any trouble with 'hooded' youngsters as far as I know, but the edict was made for the 'comfort and safety' of all patrons.

A very small block of flats nearby housed Syrian refugees who I believe were mostly Muslim. None wore a burka, only headscarves. Two worked in the shopping centre (in Norway, with a valid ID, asylum seekers are allowed to work - or were at the time I was there). I understand that since 2021, burkas are banned in nurseries, schools and university settings.

... but I do wonder what would have happened if a woman had appeared in the centre in a burka - can you exclude them from the ban because it's a religious dictate (or maybe it's cultural?).

lafergar

Primrose53

Yes it should be banned. In many cases they are very dangerous. Go to Leicester and see the women driving around in great big 4 x 4s with full face coverings and just a slit to see through. You can’t tell me that’s safe.

Is it the garment, the car or the people in Leicester that cause you such concern please?

I thought it was obvious.
I am talking about those huge 4 x 4s which could cause serious injury or death if the woman driving has only a narrow slit to see through. It’s half the sized of your average letterbox so imagine how little you could see.

Or another way to put "No - of course they should be banned here" could be to say "Just how are we supposed to see what you're thinking if your face is covered?" and, goodness knows, I see these photos of women in the full get-up and wonder how on earth they'd even recognise their friend walking down the street towards them? Would one carry a sign saying "I'm Soriah...." and the friend walking towards her carry one saying "I'm Shokria" - so they knew which "shroud" walking towards them was a friend of theirs and who wasn't?

Or do they just carry VERY distinctive handbags and message each other to say "Mine will be the sky blue pink one with a butterfly on it if you see me in the street".

That is a serious question actually - as to how they know each other when out....

A couple of posts have suggested that the use of burqas is declining in the UK. I don't think there is any evidence of this? Certainly where I live it has been increasing.

I don't think most of the women wearing them are making a completely free choice to wear them. They have a lot of pressure from the people around them, and some of them would probably prefer not to.

I was undecided as to whether burqas should be banned when I started reading this thread. Having read through, I think they probably should be.

Many years ago, whilst teaching English to French students, one such was a personable, erudite French deputy head of a local {comprehensive, Catholic} school. Headscarves were banned inside. When muslim girls entered the outer door, there was an inner hall where they left their coverings.
Asked subsequently did they feel "bereft", the majority said they felt "liberated".

woodenspoon

Sure lafergar. ‘These’ is used for a collective noun so ‘these people’. If it were one it would be that person. Clear enough for you?

Ha ha, you're a funny lady aren't you? Any more detail available please? I'm more or less up to speed with collective nouns.

Do you mean all immigrants, all Muslims, all female Muslims, all Muslims who wear a burqa?

I think on balance yes. Also balaclavas with only eye-slits. I find both intimidating. Also hoodies when used as face covering but impossible to proscribe for that.
I don’t know how likely it is that women would just stay indoors rather than go outside without a burqa but I think integration is paramount and the burqa indicates a refusal to integrate.
Ban is a harsh word but in any case I would suggest a three-year lead-in for burqas, not for balaclavas.

No. It isn't a religious requirement as far as I know. It's purpose seems to be displaying the subservience of women who wear them.

About the facial recognition thing, nobody complained during the pandemic when most people wore masks no matter where they were, indoors or out. Some people still wear masks when they leave home, presumably for medical reasons. Why bring up facial recognition only when burqas are the issue?

Wearing of religious or ethnic symbols will die out naturally as long as this is a free country.
Wearing religious symbols is done by people who have not yet learned to free themselves from ethnic or religious beliefs .

Lots of people complained about masks particularly in relation to children.