Falling birth rate

Allira

We do produce enough food to feed everyone in the world adequately.

Only because we pump animals full of drugs, spread fertiliser on our crops and manufacture so-called food from chemicals.

David49

MaizieD

Those that are are costing £8m a day, small change?
Only £3 billion a year , a small trifle.

With respect,*David*, for someone who venerates business your thinking on the national economy is remarkably restricted. £3billion is small change in the context of over all national budget spending; which is estimated to be about £1,300billion in 2025

Give them work permits and a hostel to live in until they are processed.

I expect they would much rather do that than have to sit around doing nothing all day in usually substandard accommodation and with a very small daily allowance.

I can just see the uproar there would be as well, with accusations of potential terrorists and child groomers being let loose on the UK population. Not to mention cries of 'taking our jobs'... Reform would have a field day.

If they were working they would likely create £2 billion in revenue, but you’re right it is all change and doesn’t matter, as for potential terrorists, quite likely but they are going to be given Assylum anyway because their home country isn’t “safe”..

Are you talking about immigrants or the people who arrive on boats? They're not the same group of people.

Immigration will always be needed here but not unfettered immigration.A points system and a strict one at that is needed to makes sure people are who they say they are and really do have the necessary qualifications .
As to the small boats full of mainly economic migrants, the previous government and this government may just admit they’ve thrown in the towel.
In regards to improving birth rates here, there isn’t a way.Women, unless from religions or cultures where they have big families, have actively chosen to have mainly only two, one or none.

growstuff

David49

MaizieD

Those that are are costing £8m a day, small change?
Only £3 billion a year , a small trifle.

With respect,*David*, for someone who venerates business your thinking on the national economy is remarkably restricted. £3billion is small change in the context of over all national budget spending; which is estimated to be about £1,300billion in 2025

Give them work permits and a hostel to live in until they are processed.

I expect they would much rather do that than have to sit around doing nothing all day in usually substandard accommodation and with a very small daily allowance.

I can just see the uproar there would be as well, with accusations of potential terrorists and child groomers being let loose on the UK population. Not to mention cries of 'taking our jobs'... Reform would have a field day.

If they were working they would likely create £2 billion in revenue, but you’re right it is all change and doesn’t matter, as for potential terrorists, quite likely but they are going to be given Assylum anyway because their home country isn’t “safe”..

Are you talking about immigrants or the people who arrive on boats? They're not the same group of people.

I think that David was talking about the asylum seekers who arrive on boats. A very small proportion of immigrants to the UK but who loom largest in people's minds. Mostly for the purpose of demonisation...

Not at all MaizieD perhaps just in your opinion?
20,000 arriving here in six months is a worrying figure which is why people are concerned including our own government.
The cost is enormous, housing feeding, health, translators, weekly money and more for each single one.
It’s a drain on our country and is not the same as legal immigration at all.

Oreo

Not at all MaizieD perhaps just in your opinion?
20,000 arriving here in six months is a worrying figure which is why people are concerned including our own government.
The cost is enormous, housing feeding, health, translators, weekly money and more for each single one.
It’s a drain on our country and is not the same as legal immigration at all.

What you have left out however are the enforced returns which so far amount to nearly 10000 since the beginning of the year.

Of those 10000 left some will be given refugee status, which means that they will be required to find work, accommodation etc. others will be refused and in turn deported.

There is a big problem, because the Tories simply never got to grips with the problem for obvious reasons.

How nice!

Using women as incubators for economic purposes - aka pensions or whatever else anybody has in mind! (Read with sarcasm)

Er that is an odd way to view pregnancy, I don't think anyone has suggested enforced pregnancy have they? It is a discussion about how society functions.

Hithere

How nice!

Using women as incubators for economic purposes - aka pensions or whatever else anybody has in mind! (Read with sarcasm)

The birth rate is falling the world over. And it posses a problem particularly in mature economies.

Immigration will do the same job as increased birth rate

Oreo

Not at all MaizieD perhaps just in your opinion?
20,000 arriving here in six months is a worrying figure which is why people are concerned including our own government.
The cost is enormous, housing feeding, health, translators, weekly money and more for each single one.
It’s a drain on our country and is not the same as legal immigration at all.

Totally agree.

Immigration will do the same job as increased birth rate

Do you really agree with that?

Or are you only meaning that sentence in a certain way?

There are approximately 32,000 being housed in hotels in the UK right now Whitewavemark2 can you imagine the cost!

Oreo

There are approximately 32,000 being housed in hotels in the UK right now Whitewavemark2 can you imagine the cost!

Yes but most of that was inherited.

The HO has certainly speeded up the processing, and the numbers will gradually fall.

However, this does not mean that people will not continue to seek asylum - that will almost certainly increase in volume world wide for reasons that are clear.

What needs is an agreed quota system by the world.

People running from, war, political violence, religious oppression, and most of all climate change is going to increase. Exponentially in the last reason.

Kandinsky

Many women are choosing not to have children at all these days, or they leave it very late & have just one ( possibly two )
Pretty much every woman I know ( under early 40’s ) have two children, which has been the norm for a while.
When I was growing up in the 60’s nearly every family I knew had 4 or 5 children, quite a few had 6.
It’s getting so bad primary schools are closing in some areas.

I was born on the late 50s and most of my friends families had 2 or 3. My own two daughters are in their mid 30s and one has just had a baby. She's a doctor and the training etc has been so long, the pay so crappy and the uncertainty of the next training place has meant she couldn't do anything until last year. My other daughter hasn't found the right partner and is concentrating on her career, but if she could afford it she would have a baby anyway, but she can't afford that and her mortgage. Personally if it was me and I was young again and looking at the state of the world I would not have children. I can't see climate change and the competition for the earth depleted resources ending well.

Kandinsky

Many women are choosing not to have children at all these days, or they leave it very late & have just one ( possibly two )
Pretty much every woman I know ( under early 40’s ) have two children, which has been the norm for a while.
When I was growing up in the 60’s nearly every family I knew had 4 or 5 children, quite a few had 6.
It’s getting so bad primary schools are closing in some areas.

My friend who is a teacher said that her school might start making people redundant!
Seeing more ethnic people in the secondary schools that I pass, so won’t they take the up school placements?

growstuff

Allira

fancythat

growstuff

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

The vast majority of immigrants are not siting in hotels costing money.

Where are they then?

Where are they then?

Many working in the NHS or in private healthcare. Care workers, shop workers, teachers, in the Armed Forces.
Everywhere!

Yes, everywhere! My neighbours work in a science lab, hospital, engineering company and packaging company.

There is a high propertion of immigrants in my GC's primary school, many have been here for more than 20 years though some are very recent immigrants with no English.
The vast majority of families seem to have at least one working adult in the household, though many of the mums are part-time workers. Some of the Polish women in particular are very highly qualified and looking forward to being able to get a better job once their children are older.
It should be stressed that many immigrant parents are also very keen for their children to work hard and have a good life here. One couple from south America (who have pretty lowly jobs themselves) already have one child in university studying law, with equally high expectations for their other two children.

Expectations are higher as regards standards of living now. We had 4 children plus 2 foster children. We fed and clothed and educated them all and gave low priority to fancy clothes, cars or kitchen appliances. I think values have changed that way. Also, of course, houses are much more expensive- and a lot of them are horrible, too. We always looked for a decent sized garden above all but all that has gone out the window with the increasing population.

You’re absolutely right nanna8 on how priorities change.

I agree with you nanna. Our priorities were so different from what our DC have come to expect.
Maybe I'm looking through rose tinted glasses but I wasn't off work suffering from stress. Our holidays were a chance to get away, usually under canvas in a midgy field and appreciating home comforts when we got home.
Our DC expect a villa abroad!

growstuff

Allira

We do produce enough food to feed everyone in the world adequately.

Only because we pump animals full of drugs, spread fertiliser on our crops and manufacture so-called food from chemicals.

I agree with you, Growstuff but unfortunately most people don't seem to get this. Why on earth would we wish more babies to be born into this world? Global warming is an immediate threat which might not be overcome. We in the first world live like kings whilst most of the world live in poverty. The natural world is declining. Oceans are polluted and over-fished. Will it ever be put right even if it were possible, which I doubt. For the last 200 years or so mankind has been polluting this beautiful planet. I was glad I was born when I was as I have had the best of it. So many people are putting their heads in the sand if they think the way we live is sustainable.

spread fertiliser on our crops

Of course they do. To replace the nutrients which were used up in last year's crop!!

The figures from the ONS on live births to women not born in the uk.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2022

Allira

^spread fertiliser on our crops^

Of course they do. To replace the nutrients which were used up in last year's crop!!

And fertiliser doesn't necessarily mean chemicals.

ViceVersa

Allira

spread fertiliser on our crops

Of course they do. To replace the nutrients which were used up in last year's crop!!

And fertiliser doesn't necessarily mean chemicals.

We wouldn't survive without nutrients in our food so how plants could be expected to grow without nutrients is puzzling.

Of course, organic fertilisers are best but manure etc doesn't always contain what is needed.

I am happy that the birth rate is falling. Less of a drain on natural resources