Resident (Junior) Doctors vote to strike

When I was nursing the junior Dr's were not very well paid and had years of training. It was almost a right of passage as had their predecessors At the end of it however they were free to work in the private sector and the NHS and were on a bl##dy good wage! Seems like they want the high wages before they have put the hard work in.

What would we do without doctors! However this doesn’t mean they can keep demanding more and more money. Who decides what is fair? . There are many other professions we rely on. They should not resort to strike tactics.

Iam64

icanhandthemback

My son's girlfriend is starting her F1 rotation very soon. I asked her if she is going to go on strike but she feels that is a step too far for her. She's just glad she is going to be earning a wage. There are lots of things that have changed since she started her training. Instead of being able to put down an option for where she is sent for her F1 and F2 years, it is all done by lottery. In the past it was a privilege of those who worked hard to achieve good results who got the best hospitals but she has been sent up North. She was limited too on what she could concentrate upon for her specialism but fortunately, although where she is going is perhaps less of a nice area, she has been lucky to get some of the specialities she wanted to investigate.

We have some excellent hospitals here “up north”. My sister in law told me I should get mr I seen at the Marsden. I explained we have The Christie, an outstanding specialist hospital, as others here in the north west will confirm.
We also have other excellent hospitals

I don't doubt it but when you have spent 5 years studying at your own expense, I do think there should be at least some choice about how far away you have to move to continue your training especially if you have other considerations like family/husband, etc. I suspect that there are a few northerners who can't think of anything worse than being in expensive London where she wanted to be. I'm sorry, if I didn't make it clearer that I wasn't dissing the hospitals but the distances involved and the lack of choice.

Apologies for leaping in to defend “the north”
I take your point about the lack of choices for doctors about where they find themselves. I’ve heard them complaining on radio interviews. Yes very difficult re distances / choice

Hatcham

As time has passed, we have forgotten how resident 'junior' doctors have had their pay eroded in real terms.
Please also note that new PAs earn more than new doctors, who've spent six years qualifying.

Avelne, the fact ‘everyone’s pay ‘ has been eroded doesn’t make it ok

Austerity caused so many problems

I live in Trafford a metropolitan borough of Greater Manchester. We have the excellent Christie Hospital only 20 minutes away by car along ‘A’ roads and Trafford General Hospital. Recruitment of doctors in our area has always been positive owing to the fact that we have 8 non-fee paying grammar schools - a big pull factor for doctor parents who want their children to sit the 11+ and attend a grammar school.

FGT I’m north Manc, excellent schools, open countryside, into the city used to be thirty mins, now forty. When ours were growing up they were in the same local schools and sports events.

Doctors should always be somewhere to the left. Otherwise we’ll be paying them cash in hand as they used to in my parents day.

I am64 so everyone else should be demanding huge pay rises to make up what we've lost out on?
God help the economy.

Simply disgraceful!

I don't doubt it but when you have spent 5 years studying at your own expense, I do think there should be at least some choice about how far away you have to move to continue your training especially if you have other considerations like family/husband, etc. I suspect that there are a few northerners who can't think of anything worse than being in expensive London where she wanted to be.

I wonder how many young people are married by the age of 23 these days?
In my experience, many young people are anxious to explore the options available, not stay in the locality where they grew up, especially if they've been away at university.

Aveline

*I am64* so everyone else should be demanding huge pay rises to make up what we've lost out on?
God help the economy.

That question needs directing to the governments over the past fourteen years who caused the mess

Allira

^I don't doubt it but when you have spent 5 years studying at your own expense, I do think there should be at least some choice about how far away you have to move to continue your training especially if you have other considerations like family/husband, etc. I suspect that there are a few northerners who can't think of anything worse than being in expensive London where she wanted to be.^

I wonder how many young people are married by the age of 23 these days?
In my experience, many young people are anxious to explore the options available, not stay in the locality where they grew up, especially if they've been away at university.

Some of them are, some of them aren't and they are not all 23! Furthermore, lots of young people get married or have children early even if they do want to be a Doctor. Our young lady has been working in clinics throughout her time across the world whenever she got the chance so would have liked to have been where she could more easily be near her elderly parents. It is about choice not what we think 23 year olds should be doing.

I'm not happy about the comment saying Drs don't see you as a human being! I was recently admitted to a Devon hospital by my GP same day as I saw him. I had fantastic care, saw a Doctor on arrival who told me her name. Had full blood tests ECG, X-ray, blood pressure, pain relief from very nice caring staff. Saw 2 consultants who introduced themselves and talked through test results in a way I could understand. Also discussed planned treatments and made sure I had support at home 3 days later on discharge
Nurses were fantastic and always there for you. Husband said the experience restored his faith in the NHS.

My comments above are to ROWYN

As with any profession there are different personalities involved. I think most doctors are pretty dedicated - you’d have to be to stay the course. It isn’t easy, it isn’t a walk in the park and it costs an eye watering amount of money in deferred fees. I wish they didn’t have to strike to get the wages they deserve, I wish there was a better way.

Allira

^I don't doubt it but when you have spent 5 years studying at your own expense, I do think there should be at least some choice about how far away you have to move to continue your training especially if you have other considerations like family/husband, etc. I suspect that there are a few northerners who can't think of anything worse than being in expensive London where she wanted to be.^

I wonder how many young people are married by the age of 23 these days?
In my experience, many young people are anxious to explore the options available, not stay in the locality where they grew up, especially if they've been away at university.

The young doctors will have five years at university, then F1 F2 rotations, so they will be at least 25. The specialist training from F3 to consultant is 8-10 years, so we are not talking about very young people.

I was recently admitted to a Devon hospital by my GP same day as I saw him. I had fantastic care, saw a Doctor on arrival who told me her name.
Good praise for Devon hospitals Sazzl. 👍
We're not the back of beyond, and the Peninsular Medical School, (Plymouth & Exeter), turns out its fair share of excellent doctors too. Medical students are attracted to this part of the world for the healthier quality of life, - beaches, water sports, Dartmoor, hiking etc. Seven grammar schools for doctors' children too, plus many excellent independent schools.
I guess the downside is the distances.

Our local gp friends sent their children to local primary then comps. They’ve all achieved good careers, som3 in medicine. One recently qualified as a surgeon

Iam64

Our local gp friends sent their children to local primary then comps. They’ve all achieved good careers, som3 in medicine. One recently qualified as a surgeon

Our ex-local MPs children go to State schools, the same comprehensive as my DGC, when he was an MP too.

It is about choice not what we think 23 year olds should be doing.

I don't believe I said it wasn't?

I merely commented that, in my experience, I know of very few young people who marry in their early 20s, as so many of us did years ago.

Mamie

Allira

I don't doubt it but when you have spent 5 years studying at your own expense, I do think there should be at least some choice about how far away you have to move to continue your training especially if you have other considerations like family/husband, etc. I suspect that there are a few northerners who can't think of anything worse than being in expensive London where she wanted to be.

I wonder how many young people are married by the age of 23 these days?
In my experience, many young people are anxious to explore the options available, not stay in the locality where they grew up, especially if they've been away at university.

The young doctors will have five years at university, then F1 F2 rotations, so they will be at least 25. The specialist training from F3 to consultant is 8-10 years, so we are not talking about very young people.

Precisely.

Allira

^It is about choice not what we think 23 year olds should be doing.^

I don't believe I said it wasn't?

I merely commented that, in my experience, I know of very few young people who marry in their early 20s, as so many of us did years ago.

I'm 57 and can think of some girls I went to school with who were married by the time they were 20. It was mostly girls who had no ambition to leave the area, were pushed by their mothers and grandmothers to marry young like they did, and it was nearly 40 years ago as well. However, even into the noughties, I worked with several girls in that age group who were living with partners before they were 20.
For me, I didn't want this and people who were going away to university or moving away to work by passed this and tended to want partners from away. All barring two very short lived relationships have been with women from outside the local area.

Iam64

Our local gp friends sent their children to local primary then comps. They’ve all achieved good careers, som3 in medicine. One recently qualified as a surgeon

Nothing wrong with comps! I am a successful product! 😆
I was just mirroring FriedGreenTomatoes' comment about 8 grammar schools in Manchester, (I think).

Footballers should be paid by results. Most of them are a bunch of posers. Nothing will change though, as long as fans pay to watch. I’d like to see doctors paid more, but can the country afford it? 🤔