Resident (Junior) Doctors vote to strike

Lathyrus3

Sorry. I think we possibly agree but I’m finding it difficult to understand what you are actually saying.

I'm not sure how to help you with that.

Please don’t forget that if they work these long hours they are rewarded on top of their salary.

Saturday (midnight to midnight) and any weekday after 8 pm and before 6 am:-

Pay band 1 receives an additional 47% of their base pay, while pay bands 2-9 receive between 30% and 41%.
Sundays and Public Holidays (midnight to midnight):
Pay band 1 receives an additional 94% of their base pay, while pay bands 2-9 receive between 60% and 83%.

Add all that to their basic salary and you have figures of ~£60k!

I’ve known several medical people that have gone to work in Australia for @ 12 months and they all seemed to have much better pay and working conditions and only returned here because of family ties etc.

They are grossly underpaid considering their skills and knowledge, with our lives on the end of the line.
Shouldn’t more money be going into “the kitty” instead of going elsewhere? Easy game I know, but when one thinks that £29,000,000 was spent last year on translators to help illegal immigrants, maybe we should look at our “kindness” again. France is now saying we, as a country are attractive to them because we offer so much.

The BMA should be grateful for the 22% pay rise last year and 5.4% this year, which is still above inflation. I wonder what their union leader gets, considering most of these glorified shop stewards earn at least 100k a year plus everything on expenses and a pension paid by the union.

When drs qualify they should have to sign a contract stating that they will work for the NHS for a minimum of 5yrs!
And striking should be banned! Just like the police, military !

Babamaman

When drs qualify they should have to sign a contract stating that they will work for the NHS for a minimum of 5yrs!
And striking should be banned! Just like the police, military !

I agree, doctors and nurses should be treated the same as the military and the police by not being allowed to strike. Also like the military, you train for a specific role and then have to serve for at least 4 years.

My son's girlfriend is starting her F1 rotation very soon. I asked her if she is going to go on strike but she feels that is a step too far for her. She's just glad she is going to be earning a wage. There are lots of things that have changed since she started her training. Instead of being able to put down an option for where she is sent for her F1 and F2 years, it is all done by lottery. In the past it was a privilege of those who worked hard to achieve good results who got the best hospitals but she has been sent up North. She was limited too on what she could concentrate upon for her specialism but fortunately, although where she is going is perhaps less of a nice area, she has been lucky to get some of the specialities she wanted to investigate.

Iam64

So am I dogsmother. Five years study, with £100,000 debt when the finish. Starting salary of £37,000. Three year computer studies degree, much lower student debt, start salary £60,000 and good working conditions.

Australia offering them a £50,000 welcome handshake, half student debt cleared immediately.

We need to ask what the starting salary for such important, well educated professionals should be. Can we afford not to improve salary and working conditions? About five years ago, Friends in Greece told me five young doctors from their group had gone to Germany for better pay and conditions.

I think that doctors have to be post registration to apply for posts in Australia, so their pre registration year has to be completed in the UK. So the starting salary in Australia and the UK for a registered doctor are the same?

Not all computing/computer science graduates will start on a salary of £60,000!

Lord Robert Winston has now resigned from the BMA because he doesn't agree with the strikes

I agree dogsmother. They are dealing with life and death decisions daily.The NHS would fall apart without the goodwill of the staf.f

FriedGreenTomatoes2

My sister messaged me “Do they not know the salary scheme before they take the job?”

I am pretty sure that very few Medical students entering university to study medicine, can imagine the reality of what will be demanded of them in hospital work. The level of physical and psychological stress that they will face.

Take a look at Police pay scales and you'll see how poorly Medicine compares

www.scotland.police.uk/about-us/finance/pay-and-grading-structure/

butterandjam

FriedGreenTomatoes2

My sister messaged me “Do they not know the salary scheme before they take the job?”

I am pretty sure that very few Medical students entering university to study medicine, can imagine the reality of what will be demanded of them in hospital work. The level of physical and psychological stress that they will face.

Take a look at Police pay scales and you'll see how poorly Medicine compares

www.scotland.police.uk/about-us/finance/pay-and-grading-structure/

I think pay awards are different in Scotland than England, across many public service careers.

Is this strike UK wide or England only?

icanhandthemback

My son's girlfriend is starting her F1 rotation very soon. I asked her if she is going to go on strike but she feels that is a step too far for her. She's just glad she is going to be earning a wage. There are lots of things that have changed since she started her training. Instead of being able to put down an option for where she is sent for her F1 and F2 years, it is all done by lottery. In the past it was a privilege of those who worked hard to achieve good results who got the best hospitals but she has been sent up North. She was limited too on what she could concentrate upon for her specialism but fortunately, although where she is going is perhaps less of a nice area, she has been lucky to get some of the specialities she wanted to investigate.

We have some excellent hospitals here “up north”. My sister in law told me I should get mr I seen at the Marsden. I explained we have The Christie, an outstanding specialist hospital, as others here in the north west will confirm.
We also have other excellent hospitals

They deserve every penny they are asking for. It's about time we paid properly for the work they do after 5 years of university study. Every consultant you see was once a 'Junior Doctor'. They are the future. We lose them at our peril.

I'm sorry but doctors chose that career because they genuinely want to help people. They receive a substantial pension and many appear to retire early. Young doctors should understand that as they get more experience, they will have a career that will achieve salary rises. I know very few poor doctors.
Teachers have had their salaries frozen for several years. They cannot walk away with no work at the weekend. Their salary does not match doctors. Many take a degree, a PGCE and top up with a Masters. They now have a two year induction period in school and they have to pass this. They are under constant scrutiny and you may remember the fairly recent incident where a headteacher took her own life.
Finally my son achieved a first class degree in Computer Studies and a Masters degree in Forensic Computing. Very useful actually for protecting the country in these difficult times. He started out no where near £50,000 and nor did he expect to as a young, inexperienced person.
Doctors should not be greedy. As already mentioned many people are on low salaries and would love to begin their working career at £39,000 a year.

Perhaps offer them more money now and less pensions later. Cake and eat it springs to mind.

Sadly I've noticed that it used to be that most of those who wanted to become doctors genuinely wanted to help others. Now, the trend is that families encourage their offspring to become doctors because of the high salaries, especially if they go private, once they've had their free training.

I've had a fair amount of involvement with doctors over the last year or more; It's very noticeable to me that the majority no longer have any ability to treat one as a human being - we're just entries on the computer. I'm still grateful that I have been treated, but very sad - and probably cynical about the kind of people who are aspiring to be highly paid medical professionals.

My son's girlfriend is starting her F1 rotation very soon. I asked her if she is going to go on strike but she feels that is a step too far for her. She's just glad she is going to be earning a wage. There are lots of things that have changed since she started her training. Instead of being able to put down an option for where she is sent for her F1 and F2 years, it is all done by lottery. In the past it was a privilege of those who worked hard to achieve good results who got the best hospitals but she has been sent up North. She was limited too on what she could concentrate upon for her specialism but fortunately, although where she is going is perhaps less of a nice area, she has been lucky to get some of the specialities she wanted to investigate.

Exactly the same thing has happened to DGD, icanhandthemback. She was bitterly disappointed to get Pembrokeshire having put London, south coast or anywhere in between as her preferences. Levelling up innit!!
Now she’s got used to the idea she’s looking forward to a complete change from London, where’s she’s been for seven years - six years at King’s and an intercalated degree at Imperial. She has done two placements at GOSH as she wants to specialise in paediatric surgery. Her dismay was felt by all of us especially as she’ll be so far away.
Thankfully she seems to have inherited my positive spin and has bought a car, booked some refresher lessons (nobody needs a car in London) and is learning Welsh!
That’s my girl!’❤️

And what do train drivers earn? They were given a huge pay rise!!

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Ronald Reagan did the same with the ATC workers. Those who didn't turn up for their shift were sacked. Over 11 000 of them. And they were told they'd never hold a Government job again.

It's illegal in the U.S. for Government employees to strike.

They kept the planes in the air by using the Military and training new ATC's.
PATCO, the Union, went bankrupt and folded.

A decade or so later some of the sacked who had kept their skills fresh were re-employed following a ruling by a later President.

If you say it; mean it; and do it.
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Grantanow

Sheer greed and political BMA. Surely Streeting will see them off.

He's the one at fault by caving into the junior doctors last year. He claimed he'd created thousands of new appointments when they went back to work. How many appointments will be cancelled during the 5 day strike for even more pay and what spin will he and Labour put on it?

As time has passed, we have forgotten how resident 'junior' doctors have had their pay eroded in real terms.
Please also note that new PAs earn more than new doctors, who've spent six years qualifying.

Everybody's pay has been eroded over the past few years!