Do the Labour Party have Communist policies?

Caleo

The Welfare State is socialist.

The NHS is a socialist concept.

Equality of opportunity is socialist concept.

The UK is still a long way from being properly socialist.The great mass trespass at Kinder Scout was nearly a hundred years ago, but land ownership in 2025 still hugely favours the rich. This is not equality of opportunity when some people own huge tracts of countryside but most children have nowhere to play.

I can't remember, but wasn't 'socialism' a stage on the way to achieving 'communism'? Or is it the other way round?

RosieandherMaw

Don’t mention it nanna8 (oh, you didn’t)

Yes - thanks to you as well ( sorry, phone rang and I was sidetracked) 🍷

MaizieD

Voltaire might well have said I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it, but I don't think it ever stopped him disagreeing with 'what you say' and saying why he disagreed.

Exactly

MaizieD

Caleo

The Welfare State is socialist.

The NHS is a socialist concept.

Equality of opportunity is socialist concept.

The UK is still a long way from being properly socialist.The great mass trespass at Kinder Scout was nearly a hundred years ago, but land ownership in 2025 still hugely favours the rich. This is not equality of opportunity when some people own huge tracts of countryside but most children have nowhere to play.

I can't remember, but wasn't 'socialism' a stage on the way to achieving 'communism'? Or is it the other way round?

First comes the Revolution and then socialism is the precursor to a fully communist state, which is a continuous process.

But tbh I’m don’t think Marx ever fully developed the idea, and so it is a bit amorphous.

Whitewavemark2

MaizieD

Caleo

The Welfare State is socialist.

The NHS is a socialist concept.

Equality of opportunity is socialist concept.

The UK is still a long way from being properly socialist.The great mass trespass at Kinder Scout was nearly a hundred years ago, but land ownership in 2025 still hugely favours the rich. This is not equality of opportunity when some people own huge tracts of countryside but most children have nowhere to play.

I can't remember, but wasn't 'socialism' a stage on the way to achieving 'communism'? Or is it the other way round?

First comes the Revolution and then socialism is the precursor to a fully communist state, which is a continuous process.

But tbh I’m don’t think Marx ever fully developed the idea, and so it is a bit amorphous.

To each according to need and from each according to ability" is amorphous like God's love is amorphous. It's our human responsibility to make the concept actual by hammering it out in real life.

For many of us on Gransnet and elsewhere the shape we give to the Marxist motto is the shape of Jesus.

Caleo

The Welfare State is socialist.

The NHS is a socialist concept.

Equality of opportunity is socialist concept.

The UK is still a long way from being properly socialist.The great mass trespass at Kinder Scout was nearly a hundred years ago, but land ownership in 2025 still hugely favours the rich. This is not equality of opportunity when some people own huge tracts of countryside but most children have nowhere to play.

It is also very easy to give lip-service to a far-right right economy when you live in a mixed economy with some socialist policies keeping us all afloat at times.

It is also easy to give lip-service to a far left economy when you live in a mixed economy with some radical right policies that allow us to maximize free-market forces, minimize state intervention, uphold traditional social structures, and prioritise national sovereignty.

You can see the out-come of supporting the extreme, right-wing policies in America currently, where the very people who are loosing out are often those who did not see what a mixed economy meant to them but rather believed the tropes of the hard-right

PoliticsNerd

Caleo

The Welfare State is socialist.

The NHS is a socialist concept.

Equality of opportunity is socialist concept.

The UK is still a long way from being properly socialist.The great mass trespass at Kinder Scout was nearly a hundred years ago, but land ownership in 2025 still hugely favours the rich. This is not equality of opportunity when some people own huge tracts of countryside but most children have nowhere to play.

It is also very easy to give lip-service to a far-right right economy when you live in a mixed economy with some socialist policies keeping us all afloat at times.

It is also easy to give lip-service to a far left economy when you live in a mixed economy with some radical right policies that allow us to maximize free-market forces, minimize state intervention, uphold traditional social structures, and prioritise national sovereignty.

You can see the out-come of supporting the extreme, right-wing policies in America currently, where the very people who are loosing out are often those who did not see what a mixed economy meant to them but rather believed the tropes of the hard-right

PoliticsNerd, is free speech "lip service"? Is freedom of assembly "lip service".

Would you please edit your message, as I am too thick to make sense of it.

Grantanow

History shows that true Communism is never achieved but is hijacked by a despotic ruling elite: Stalin, for example.

And elite they were with their dachas, while millions of peasants starved. Landowners were disposed of in one way or another, doctors were murdered.

It sounds idealistic in theory but is brutalist and elitist in practice.

The UK is still a long way from being properly socialist.The great mass trespass at Kinder Scout was nearly a hundred years ago, but land ownership in 2025 still hugely favours the rich. This is not equality of opportunity when some people own huge tracts of countryside but most children have nowhere to play.

I cannot agree that most children have nowhere to play. Caleo. Many may not, but not most, and therefore we should ensure that playgrounds and parks be preserved and maintained as a priority.

I'm am sorry you feel that way about your capabilities Caleo. I am sure you are more able than you suggest. Belittling creates an unhealthy relationship, even when you do it to yourself.

"Lip-service" doesn't relate to to free speech. It basically means people who say one thing but do another. Hope that helps.

Grantanow

History shows that true Communism is never achieved but is hijacked by a despotic ruling elite: Stalin, for example.

Most ruling elites tend to be despotic to a greater or lesser degree. It's part of the difficulty inherent in reaching a consensus on how a society should be organised and how its members can be brought to conform to that organisation.

We see it in our own history with repression, sometimes quite violent, of dissenters from the 'established 'norm' (established either by law or custom). For hundreds of years when religion was a key issue non conformists were the target of state repression ranging from not being allowed to participate in 'elite' roles to actual execution for their beliefs.

Once the sway of religion was lost there was the movement towards better conditions for workers. This was feared by the 'elite' and equally repressed. Campaigners were imprisoned, even transported, campaign groups banned by law etc. Any attempt at amelioration of the conditions of workers through parliament was vehemently opposed, improvement was piecemeal and very, very slow.

I won't even touch on present day repression in the UK...

The problem in the USSR was that it is much harder to achieve consensual change by revolution. So repression of dissent went harder and faster.

PoliticsNerd

I'm am sorry you feel that way about your capabilities Caleo. I am sure you are more able than you suggest. Belittling creates an unhealthy relationship, even when you do it to yourself.

"Lip-service" doesn't relate to to free speech. It basically means people who say one thing but do another. Hope that helps.

There is really no need to be so patronising PoliticsNerd. Your post comes over as a real rap on the knuckles from teacher, which is hurtful, and unnecessary.

Casdon

PoliticsNerd

I'm am sorry you feel that way about your capabilities Caleo. I am sure you are more able than you suggest. Belittling creates an unhealthy relationship, even when you do it to yourself.

"Lip-service" doesn't relate to to free speech. It basically means people who say one thing but do another. Hope that helps.

There is really no need to be so patronising PoliticsNerd. Your post comes over as a real rap on the knuckles from teacher, which is hurtful, and unnecessary.

I'm probably a thicko too, but I didn't take Economics at 'A' level or beyond.

Nor 'O' level, come to that, as there were no such subjects taught at school back in those days.

Don't worry, Politics Nerd----I was trying to not sound hostile .
I am quite intelligent in some ways but find politics difficult.

Any way thanks for your gloss on 'lip service'.

My attitude is to try to be disinterested , like John Rawls ' "Veil of Ignorance". Naturally with the best will in the world one does not always succeed.
l
ld one does not always succeed

Naturally with the best will in the world one does not always succeed.

It is not intended to be or worded in that way. How do you think Caleo's post comes over Casdon?

When people use self-deprecation in this way it can be because they want to make others feel uncomfortable or it can be because they feel down. I chose to see it as the later and expressed my concern.

Surely no one on GN would disrespect a post that others have taken time and effort to write - even if their style isn't your style?

Politics Nerd

I would have thought that you would recognise "thick" in that context as an example of someone being sardonic.

Yes I meant to make you sufficiently uncomfortable to motivate you to edit your quite difficult post. I felt that I agreed with you but your wording seemed to me to not link up the dots.

Caleo

Yes I meant to make you sufficiently uncomfortable to motivate you to edit your quite difficult post. I felt that I agreed with you but your wording seemed to me to not link up the dots.

I think I get it.

Living in the comfort of a country run by moderate governments of middle right or middle left, it's easy to expound far-left or far-right ideals because you haven't actually experienced them yourself.

They're just that - ideals. In practice it might not be quite as wonderful as you imagined.

I might have that completely wrong, of course!
Or probably 😀

Like you Caleo, I can only write how I write. If you have a problem with what I wrote or how it was written, explain it to me and, of course, I will try and clarify it.

However, just asking me to "edit a difficult post" doesn't give me any clues, I'm afraid.

Allira

Caleo

Yes I meant to make you sufficiently uncomfortable to motivate you to edit your quite difficult post. I felt that I agreed with you but your wording seemed to me to not link up the dots.

I think I get it.

Living in the comfort of a country run by moderate governments of middle right or middle left, it's easy to expound far-left or far-right ideals because you haven't actually experienced them yourself.

They're just that - ideals. In practice it might not be quite as wonderful as you imagined.

I might have that completely wrong, of course!
Or probably 😀

Thank you Allira!

The only successful communist state is China, which is little more than state controlled capitalism, where you can become a billionaire as long as you follow party policy. Dissent by the workers is not allowed and there are party agents in every town and street to make sure they are obedient.

I think "State Controlled" tells you it's Communist though David. If it was just an extreme form of Capitalism I think the economy would be controlled by individuals, not necessarily those running the government.

It's been discussed many times but these extremes do come very close together at the bottom of the political horseshoe. Only the word "dictatorship" separates them, sadly.

PoliticsNerd

I think "State Controlled" tells you it's Communist though David. If it was just an extreme form of Capitalism I think the economy would be controlled by individuals, not necessarily those running the government.

It's been discussed many times but these extremes do come very close together at the bottom of the political horseshoe. Only the word "dictatorship" separates them, sadly.

It’s hard to tell if President Xi is a dictator or the figurehead for a wider leadership group, it’s achieved more in 30 years than could have been achieved by any democratic system.

It’s amazing every western country supports the communist regime in China despite its democratic principles being zero.

The trouble with democracy is it's not easy David. That's exactly why extremes can seem attractive.

Xi's life could easily be forfitted but that would be the same for a dictator. I don't think he is just a figurehead; he does seem to have personal power. I think this may just be how Communism works. Thankfully we (so far) don't have too many examples to judge it by.