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UK mercenaries serving abroad - should be illegal.

(87 Posts)
Claremont Fri 18-Jul-25 14:31:16

Hundreds of Britons have joined the Israel Defence Force, which is illegally occupying Palestinian land and has killed thousands of children in Gaza. Now lawyers are asking: Is their recruitment lawful?

Why should it be illegal to serve in anothere Army, and even paid more than the local soldiers- but legal to serve in the IDF- especially as many are used to protect illegal settlers and illegal settlements, or even to take active part in expulsions, often violent. And many taking active part in the current genocide?

David49 Sat 19-Jul-25 07:24:08

M0nica

People serving in the British forces do not fight as mercenaries in other people's war.

Those British servicemen currently in Ukraine are not fightina d do not go near the frontline. They are well behind lines, in advising and training roles.

So Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo and Al, the other action Britain has been involved in are not other people’s wars.
The UK has always used mercenaries no more than the Ghurkas, or is that different to an African government recruiting British personnel for its armed forces.

Anniebach Sat 19-Jul-25 09:17:49

A mercenary is a private individual who joins an armed conflict for personal profit, is otherwise an outsider to the conflict, and is not a member of any other official military.[1][2] Mercenaries fight for money or other forms of payment rather than for political interests.

I do. Not believe mercenaries was correct judgement in O/P

Oreo Sat 19-Jul-25 09:38:24

Is there any aspect of Israel that you approve of Claremont?
Is this thread designed to stir up anger?
I think posters have answered your fears in any case. There is no reason to worry further about it.

Claremont Sat 19-Jul-25 09:39:23

My point Annieb, is that who is to decide who is what. British citizens who have joined the IDF, for instance, are paid a lot better than their Israeli counterparts. But are they all dual citizens, who do they just 'identify'- indeed, who checks?

The main point I am trying to make, is that if it is OK and people are free to go and fight for the IDF- why would they not be allowed to go and fight for Palestine or Russia. For money, for 'political interest' of both?

David49 Sat 19-Jul-25 09:45:50

“The main point I am trying to make, is that if it is OK and people are free to go and fight for the IDF- why would they not be allowed to go and fight for Palestine or Russia. For money, for 'political interest' of both?”

That depends if you or your government approves of the group they are fighting for

Oreo Sat 19-Jul-25 09:46:04

Fight for Palestine, that’s fighting for hamas, a terrorist organisation.
Fight for Russia, an enemy of the West and aggressor in Ukraine.

Claremont Sat 19-Jul-25 09:48:23

Fight for a country which is now officially deemed to be commiting war crimes and genocide, and illegally settling large areas lived in and worked by others? At what point does the balance tip? that is my very point.

Oreo Sat 19-Jul-25 09:55:23

Officially ? Not by the UK.

Anniebach Sat 19-Jul-25 10:02:52

Oreo Sat 19-Jul-25 09:55:23
Officially ? Not by the UK.

I too like facts

Allira Sat 19-Jul-25 10:59:56

petra

Baggs

I suggest the OP checks out what the Geneva Convention has to say about mercenaries before declaring anything about legality or otherwise.

👏👏👏👏

Never let facts get in the way when posting on GN!!

Claremont Sat 19-Jul-25 11:35:09

From the Times of Israel a few months back- and since the situation has got a lot more serious, with the killing of straving people seeking a little food and water.

“British nationals are under a legal obligation not to collude with crimes committed in Palestine. No one is above the law,” Michael Mansfield, one of the lawyers who handed in the dossier, told The Guardian.

“​If one of our nationals is committing ​an offense, we ought to be doing something about it. Even if we can’t stop the government of foreign countries behaving badly, we can at least stop our nationals from behaving badly.”

Sean Summerfield, a Doughty Street Chambers barrister who helped create the document, said he wanted to see those accused “appearing at the Old Bailey to answer for atrocity crimes.”

“The public will be shocked, I would have thought, to hear that there’s credible evidence that Brits have been directly involved in committing some of those atrocities,” he added.

“​This is illegal, this is inhuman and​ enough is enough,” said Raji Sourani, the director of the PCHR. “The government cannot say we didn’t know; we are providing them with all ​the evidence.”

Not, not by the UK, but by most of the rest of the world.

Allira Sat 19-Jul-25 11:42:22

Michael Mansfield

He's an advocate for human rights and civil liberties but not for the right of people to choose whom they support then?

Oreo Sat 19-Jul-25 13:32:31

Bringing up sentences uttered by randoms won’t make what they say true or legal.

Claremont Sat 19-Jul-25 18:26:29

Allira

^Michael Mansfield^

He's an advocate for human rights and civil liberties but not for the right of people to choose whom they support then?

So UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians. Or Syrians, Afghans, Russians?

One thing is clear however- they will not be immune to prosecution for war crimes.

Claremont Sat 19-Jul-25 18:37:41

''war crimes. The Israeli government is responsible for them.” Former Israeli PM Ehud Olmert says Israelis are committing “daily atrocities” in the occupied West Bank, with full knowledge of the government, police and army.''

As was declared at the Nuremberg Tribunals- following orders was never, and never will be, an exemption for answering to committing war crimes.

Allira Sat 19-Jul-25 20:47:45

So UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians

It was my understanding that they do already.
And, of course, in Syria and Afghansitan but I'm sure you must have known that already.

I cannot tell you if any are fighting with the Russians against Ukraine.

David49 Sat 19-Jul-25 21:07:11

Allira

^So UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians^

It was my understanding that they do already.
And, of course, in Syria and Afghansitan but I'm sure you must have known that already.

I cannot tell you if any are fighting with the Russians against Ukraine.

Probably not but the principles are the same a government or a terrorist organization

Allira Sat 19-Jul-25 21:26:11

David49

Allira

So UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians

It was my understanding that they do already.
And, of course, in Syria and Afghansitan but I'm sure you must have known that already.

I cannot tell you if any are fighting with the Russians against Ukraine.

Probably not but the principles are the same a government or a terrorist organization

The question asked if UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians

Are many not already supporting Palestinians, if not fighting then giving aid there or protesting here in the UK?
Is that not supporting Palestinians? 🤔

keepingquiet Sat 19-Jul-25 21:35:54

British mercenary soldiers fight in many other conflicts too, including Southern Sudan and the DRC. They are in the main anonymous and their fate often goes unknown. They know the risks and would not expect any protection from the British government.
Some do it for the sense of adventure, some for idealism.

Allira Sat 19-Jul-25 21:42:43

It's been happening for centuries.

M0nica Sun 20-Jul-25 16:06:24

David49

Allira

So UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians

It was my understanding that they do already.
And, of course, in Syria and Afghansitan but I'm sure you must have known that already.

I cannot tell you if any are fighting with the Russians against Ukraine.

Probably not but the principles are the same a government or a terrorist organization

British soldiers, not serving soldiers, have been fighting and have been killed in Ukraine.
www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/10/the-britons-killed-fighting-for-ukraine-against-russia

David49 Sun 20-Jul-25 16:29:12

“British soldiers, not serving soldiers, have been fighting and have been killed in Ukraine.”

There probably have been British, US and other serving personnel fighting front line in Ukraine but nobody is going to admit it.

Claremont Sun 20-Jul-25 16:31:57

Allira

David49

Allira

So UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians

It was my understanding that they do already.
And, of course, in Syria and Afghansitan but I'm sure you must have known that already.

I cannot tell you if any are fighting with the Russians against Ukraine.

Probably not but the principles are the same a government or a terrorist organization

The question asked if UK citizens should be free to choose to support Hamas then, or at least, Palestinians

Are many not already supporting Palestinians, if not fighting then giving aid there or protesting here in the UK?
Is that not supporting Palestinians? 🤔

That is totally different, I am sure you are aware.

I am not talking about British soldiers, I am talking about British citizens, dual citizens, or not dual citizens- who have chosen to go and fight with the IDF, for ideological, religious or other reasons.

Allira Sun 20-Jul-25 16:32:20

David49

“British soldiers, not serving soldiers, have been fighting and have been killed in Ukraine.”

There probably have been British, US and other serving personnel fighting front line in Ukraine but nobody is going to admit it.

There are not.

To post such a thing might put lives in danger.

Claremont Sun 20-Jul-25 17:12:09

How do you know this Allira? Genuine question.

So I agree, I used of the word 'mercenaries' incorrectly.

So what should we call them?

There is concern that British citizens are participating in war crimes in Gaza, the West Bank and illegal settlements. And it is clear that on return they are liable for prosecution like any other.

Concerns too about the hypocrisy of allowing British citizens to fight in Israel, whereas they would be called and treated as terrorist if they thought for Palestine.

youtu.be/gZd_1fu9rYg?feature=shared