Brexit. We never stood a chance. The elites were against it.

Grantanow

It's noticeable that Farage has moved on from his support for Brexit (an obvious failure) to immigration. Simple opportunism. A disaster looms for the UK if he were to become PM.

But he used fear of migrants as a way of achieving Brexit. Remember that poster? Brexit was supposed to give us control over our borders and stop illegal people entering the country. Everything he does is based on racism and xenophobia; it’s his life blood. He is a one trick pony; without whipping up fear of foreigners he is nothing. Unfortunately it seems to work. Not only that but Brexit divided the country and it’s still divided. Imo it isn’t the same country as it was pre referendum and that saddens me beyond belief.

A recent survey by Opinium found that immigration has overtaken the economy as voter’s biggest concern. A 7 point increase since May
49% of people put immigration in their top three concerns
So I’m glad that Nigel is concentrating on immigration. I wish Keir Starmer would listen to the people and do the same
We have every reason to be concerned

sundowngirl

A recent survey by Opinium found that immigration has overtaken the economy as voter’s biggest concern. A 7 point increase since May
49% of people put immigration in their top three concerns
So I’m glad that Nigel is concentrating on immigration. I wish Keir Starmer would listen to the people and do the same
We have every reason to be concerned

What does this have to do with Brexit?

Farage said a vote for leave would give us control of our borders and stop illegal immigration.

growstuff

sundowngirl

A recent survey by Opinium found that immigration has overtaken the economy as voter’s biggest concern. A 7 point increase since May
49% of people put immigration in their top three concerns
So I’m glad that Nigel is concentrating on immigration. I wish Keir Starmer would listen to the people and do the same
We have every reason to be concerned

What does this have to do with Brexit?

What additional practical, legal and morally acceptable further steps would you like to see the government taking sundowngirl? They aren’t doing nothing, but I’d be interested to know what you think needs to happen - perhaps tell us what exactly you think would happen if Farage became PM, or what he has said his measures will be?

MayBee70

Farage said a vote for leave would give us control of our borders and stop illegal immigration.

Well, that was always a lie!

The UK always had control over immigration from non-EU countries (as much as it does now). Brexit was never going to change that. All Brexit has done is make legal immigration from EU countries more difficult.

In fact, we have less control because agreements to return immigrants to EU countries no longer exist.

Did people really believe the nonsense?

growstuff

sundowngirl

A recent survey by Opinium found that immigration has overtaken the economy as voter’s biggest concern. A 7 point increase since May
49% of people put immigration in their top three concerns
So I’m glad that Nigel is concentrating on immigration. I wish Keir Starmer would listen to the people and do the same
We have every reason to be concerned

What does this have to do with Brexit?

It has to do with Brexit because one of of the significant misbeliefs of many voting for Brexit was that Brexit would lead to a massive drop in immigration.

M0nica

growstuff

sundowngirl

A recent survey by Opinium found that immigration has overtaken the economy as voter’s biggest concern. A 7 point increase since May
49% of people put immigration in their top three concerns
So I’m glad that Nigel is concentrating on immigration. I wish Keir Starmer would listen to the people and do the same
We have every reason to be concerned

What does this have to do with Brexit?

It has to do with Brexit because one of of the significant misbeliefs of many voting for Brexit was that Brexit would lead to a massive drop in immigration.

Ah! I see! So it has something to do with Brexit because people thought Brexit would reduce it, but it didn't (and was never likely to). I think I get it now .

Is that what the OP means about not standing a chance? Do the "elites" support immigration? (I might be having a lightbulb moment.)

Casdon

growstuff

sundowngirl

A recent survey by Opinium found that immigration has overtaken the economy as voter’s biggest concern. A 7 point increase since May
49% of people put immigration in their top three concerns
So I’m glad that Nigel is concentrating on immigration. I wish Keir Starmer would listen to the people and do the same
We have every reason to be concerned

What does this have to do with Brexit?

What additional practical, legal and morally acceptable further steps would you like to see the government taking sundowngirl? They aren’t doing nothing, but I’d be interested to know what you think needs to happen - perhaps tell us what exactly you think would happen if Farage became PM, or what he has said his measures will be?

Growstuff - because Nigel Farage was being criticised for prioritising immigration over Brexit. A possible reason for his change of priorities

Casdon - This government cancelled the only deterrent we had just as it was about to get off the ground. Now other countries are looking at similar deterrents
Starmer could look at what is working in those countries that have successfully reduced illegal immigration like Australia, Poland, Greece, America.
He could close all the hotels and remove the other 'pull' factors too. Even Macron and Trump agree we are a soft touch

You are obviously not concerned about this continued flow of undocumented young men, if you believe Starmer is doing all he can
He was never going to smash the gangs

sundowngirl You're not a very good mind-reader if you don't think I'm unconcerned about immigration. Incidentally, I hope you're not one of the people who think people who arrive on boats in the Channel and immediately claim asylum are "illegal".

I'm beginning to think that Farage (and some of his supporters) thought that Brexit was synonymous with curbing immigration , which is a bit weird because was obvious it wouldn't (including immigrants with visas, asylum seekers and true illegal immigrants).

There was much more to Brexit than immigration and freedom of movement within the EU.

Nick Ferrari was asking a Reform MP how they intended to stop the boats. She said they would push the boats back to France. - when asked would she let them drown she was very hesitant.

sundowngirl isn’t wrong when she mentions the Rwanda option, it wasn’t given a chance to either succeed or fail and was already set up.It’s true that other countries are now examining similar options.
It simply cannot continue to go on unchecked.

growstuff

sundowngirl You're not a very good mind-reader if you don't think I'm unconcerned about immigration. Incidentally, I hope you're not one of the people who think people who arrive on boats in the Channel and immediately claim asylum are "illegal".

I'm beginning to think that Farage (and some of his supporters) thought that Brexit was synonymous with curbing immigration , which is a bit weird because was obvious it wouldn't (including immigrants with visas, asylum seekers and true illegal immigrants).

There was much more to Brexit than immigration and freedom of movement within the EU.

Growstuff - if you read my post you will see my comment was for Casden, so I wasn't trying to read your mind.

However, These undocumented males arrived on our shores illegally (is there another name??) and you have also mentioned 'true' illegal immigrants

Sorry to be butting in just now, and it's not about this Thread, but has anyone tried clicking on the strange, almost foreigh language posts, in the 'top ten' just now? Is it just a blip? Saw it once before.

Wherever the undocumented immigrants come from, the problem is that they are almost entirely male and throughout history where large groups of men overwhelm an area, whether victorious armies, or a countries own army or documented or undocumented immigrants or intinerant workers, especially when from less permissive cultures you can expect a rise in sexual crimes.

sundowngirl

Casdon

growstuff

sundowngirl

A recent survey by Opinium found that immigration has overtaken the economy as voter’s biggest concern. A 7 point increase since May
49% of people put immigration in their top three concerns
So I’m glad that Nigel is concentrating on immigration. I wish Keir Starmer would listen to the people and do the same
We have every reason to be concerned

What does this have to do with Brexit?

What additional practical, legal and morally acceptable further steps would you like to see the government taking sundowngirl? They aren’t doing nothing, but I’d be interested to know what you think needs to happen - perhaps tell us what exactly you think would happen if Farage became PM, or what he has said his measures will be?

Growstuff - because Nigel Farage was being criticised for prioritising immigration over Brexit. A possible reason for his change of priorities

Casdon - This government cancelled the only deterrent we had just as it was about to get off the ground. Now other countries are looking at similar deterrents
Starmer could look at what is working in those countries that have successfully reduced illegal immigration like Australia, Poland, Greece, America.
He could close all the hotels and remove the other 'pull' factors too. Even Macron and Trump agree we are a soft touch

You are obviously not concerned about this continued flow of undocumented young men, if you believe Starmer is doing all he can
He was never going to smash the gangs

Here are the costs of the proposed Rwanda scheme.
www.ippr.org/media-office/hidden-costs-of-rwanda-scheme-revealed-to-be-in-the-billions-finds-ippr
The initial capacity was very limited. There was also independent research carried out which found it would not act as a deterrent. Carry on though, if you want to believe it was the golden goose, but be clear that the schemes being looked at by other countries are not the same scheme at all as the UK was developing.

I take issue with the assumption that I am not concerned about this type of migration, I am, and I agree with a lot of the measures now being introduced.

It’s a very complex jigsaw, which can’t be resolved by any of the facile proposals made by Farage and his ilk. I really think that a lot of Gransnetters are burying their heads in the sand if they think that there are any short term, easy or cheap solutions, or that the UK can act in isolation. If I hear send them back to France one more time, for example, I am going to scream.

Maremia

Sorry to be butting in just now, and it's not about this Thread, but has anyone tried clicking on the strange, almost foreigh language posts, in the 'top ten' just now? Is it just a blip? Saw it once before.

No, don't!! 😯

THANKS Allira. Are they scams? Are you all getting them?

Not today although I've seen similar previously.

Have you been hacked?

I'd report them, log off, leave it for a bit then change your password.
Ask GNHQ for advice, too.

sundowngirl

growstuff

sundowngirl You're not a very good mind-reader if you don't think I'm unconcerned about immigration. Incidentally, I hope you're not one of the people who think people who arrive on boats in the Channel and immediately claim asylum are "illegal".

I'm beginning to think that Farage (and some of his supporters) thought that Brexit was synonymous with curbing immigration , which is a bit weird because was obvious it wouldn't (including immigrants with visas, asylum seekers and true illegal immigrants).

There was much more to Brexit than immigration and freedom of movement within the EU.

Growstuff - if you read my post you will see my comment was for Casden, so I wasn't trying to read your mind.

However, These undocumented males arrived on our shores illegally (is there another name??) and you have also mentioned 'true' illegal immigrants

This was discussed on another thread. People who land in the UK, either in the dead of night and then disappear or those who have a tourist visa who overstay and go on to find work or those whose claim for asylum has failed, are in the UK illegally.

Those who arrive in a small boat and then report to a border official and claim asylum are not illegal. Under international law, they have every legal right to do what they've done.

PS. I hate the dehumanising term "illegals", which isn't even accurate in most cases.

Brexit hasn't affected the number of people claiming asylum in the UK.

The effect of Brexit has been on where immigrants come from. The UK economy currently needs immigrants in various sectors. When we had freedom of movement, many of the workers the country needed came from EU countries because they had freedom of movement. Now, immigrants are more likely to come from non-EU countries. Those with a visa outnumber those who arrive without one.

Any problems caused by an increase in population (lack of infrastructure etc) are not caused by the relatively small (as part of the bigger picture) number of people who arrive on boats.