So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

David49

Hamas was armed by Iran, much of the aid given to Gaza during the period before the October attack was used to construct and smuggle weapons.
Hamas don’t care how many die, they are fanatics every death is martyrdom, western liberalism is very weak against that doctrine, as we found out in Iraq and Afghanistan, to win you have to fight on their level

And who aided and encouraged this🤔

That would be Netanyahu.

Michael Rosen

I have been reading about Iran in particular funding Hamas on Wikipedia and other sites on the internet. Qatar and Turkey are also mentioned in my search.

Whitewavemark2

David49

Hamas was armed by Iran, much of the aid given to Gaza during the period before the October attack was used to construct and smuggle weapons.
Hamas don’t care how many die, they are fanatics every death is martyrdom, western liberalism is very weak against that doctrine, as we found out in Iraq and Afghanistan, to win you have to fight on their level

And who aided and encouraged this🤔

That would be Netanyahu.

That was when Hamas promised a peaceful democratic Gaza, it didnt last long because the first thing Hamas did was murder any opposition.

No that was when Netanyahu was desperate to keep a more liberal political party from becoming the representatives of both parts of Israel.

He thought he could divide and rule.

Netanyahu is Israel’s longest serving PM, he certainly got something right

www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/#comments

Anniebach

Netanyahu is Israel’s longest serving PM, he certainly got something right

Well he was due to go to jail if this conflict hadn’t happened and is deeply unpopular with many Israelis, I supposeAmericans aren’t the only voters who can vote in the same rogue more than once.
If he did something right would love to hear about it.
Yitzhak Rabin was deserving of the office of PM, doing more for peace than any other Israeli PM, but of course a far right Israeli assassinated him.

Whitewavemark2

No that was when Netanyahu was desperate to keep a more liberal political party from becoming the representatives of both parts of Israel.

He thought he could divide and rule.

I think it’s reasonable to give a new government in Gaza help to live peacefully alongside the Jews. Or are you saying that that Israel can never trust any government in Gaza to keep its word

I think what I am saying is that until Israel is prepared to give Palestinians the right to self determination, then an apartheid state can never prosper.

I agree WWM and there's also the question of whether the Palestinians can ever trust the government of Israel in the future.

Smileless2012

I agree WWM and there's also the question of whether the Palestinians can ever trust the government of Israel in the future.

Not until Likud are no longer influenced by the Zionist Jabotinsky.

But what Jabotinsky understood, but which many appear to deny is that “violent dispossession and violent resistance is totally intertwined”

Programme on sky news tonight, think it's 9 pm, about how IDF and settlers are behaving. The clips they showed this morning were awful.

theworriedwell

Programme on sky news tonight, think it's 9 pm, about how IDF and settlers are behaving. The clips they showed this morning were awful.

So don’t be surprised when Palestinians resist with violence.

Smileless2012

I agree WWM and there's also the question of whether the Palestinians can ever trust the government of Israel in the future.

Very true.
Certainly Palestinian rights to property and land and free movement have been curtailed for decades.
This conflict isn’t happening in a vacuum, there is historical context which of it isn’t addressed will only result in more violence.

The settler policy of Israel is wrong and should be stopped it’s making a bad situation worse, however Hamas wanting kill every Jew is totally unacceptable.

Ordinary Israelis have got to make a decision either end the war now leaving Hamas in power, a hostile neighbour that’s going to take any opportunity to kill you.

Or

Get serious about removing Hamas which will mean loosing a lot of IDF lives.

Either they want to fight for the Jewish homeland or they dont.

I think is a catch 22 situation David, Hamas probably won’t negotiate on a withdrawal until Israel stop bombing Gaza.
There desperately needs to be a good mediator who can get both sides to agree. The US usually took on this role but of course Trump is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Israel did not bomb until 7th October 2023 attack

The settler policy won’t stop until the Israeli’s vote out the nationalist Zionism government.

And what will replace it wwm2?

Apartheid is violent, both in the West Bank and Gaza, because the Palestinians live under the control of a state that is not accountable to them.

They cannot attain citizenship, neither can they choose the leaders.

Most Palestinians have lived their entire lives under a blockade enforced by their oppressors.

ronib

And what will replace it wwm2?

Whom ever the Israelis choose🙄.

The government of Gaza was chosen in a general election

Anniebach

Israel did not bomb until 7th October 2023 attack

‘The Gaza–Israel conflict is a localized part of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict beginning in 1948, when about 200,000 of the more than 700,000 Palestinians who fled or were expelled from their homes settled in the Gaza Strip as refugees.[1] Since then, Israel has waged 15[2] wars in the Gaza Strip. The number of Palestinians killed in the Gaza war (ongoing since 2023) (61,000+) is higher than the death toll of all other wars in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[3][4’

Israel has bombed Gaza before, you can’t rewrite history.

Quote Babs03 Tue 12-Aug-25 10:11:28
Anniebach
Israel did not bomb until 7th October 2023 attack
‘The Gaza–Israel conflict is a localized part of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict beginning in 1948, when about 200,000 of the more than 700,000 Palestinians who fled or were expelled from their homes settled in the Gaza Strip as refugees.[1] Since then, Israel has waged 15[2] wars in the Gaza Strip. The number of Palestinians killed in the Gaza war (ongoing since 2023) (61,000+) is higher than the death toll of all other wars in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[3][4’

Israel has bombed Gaza before, you can’t rewrite history.
Bookmark

When did Israel bomb Gaza before 2023 ?