Will Trump really support Ukraine at meeting with Putin?

ronib

wwm2 I can’t remember the full details but there may have been some treaty or agreement to cover Ukraine’s position with NATO and the EU. We’re underestimating the importance of Ukraine as a bulwark to Russia against Western expansion.

That is exactly what we are not doing and why Ukraine must remain a sovereign country to keep Putin back.

The west is not expansionary😄, that is just in Putin’s sick mind.

A Ukrainian lawyer has said the pomp and ceremony given to Putin showed "the legitimisation of a war criminal at the highest level".
Ukrainians are dismayed by the warmth shown to their enemy.

Trump is creating a world where money and power overcomes humanity. Where criminals like Putin and Netanyahu prosper and ordinary people die to achieve their greedy aims.

Putin feels threatened by the West. This is very dangerous for the West as Putin will seek partnerships with China to build a sense of security which the West has undermined so far. Russia and China together may well cause WW3. wwm2

The EU is most definitely expansionary….

I don't think the EU is the problem ronib.

Maybe you might like/be interested in this paper?
It seems to be along your thpught lines?

www.defensepriorities.org/explainers/assessing-realist-and-liberal-explanations-for-the-russo-ukrainian-war/

ronib

The EU is most definitely expansionary….

The EU is not an Empire.
It does not gain members by invading other countries!

I am most definitely thinking along the lines of the link Not Spaghetti supplied. It’s definitely worth reading. Thanks 🙏

"in 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up the nuclear weapons it inherited from the Soviet Union in exchange for security assurances from Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom."

Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if it had kept it's weapons and there have been absolutely no hostile moves towards Russia. Russia never keeps it's promises.

Neither has the United States and the United Kingdom presumably? foxie48 Russia believes that there have been hostile moves towards it. That’s the difference.

foxie48

"in 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up the nuclear weapons it inherited from the Soviet Union in exchange for security assurances from Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom."

Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if it had kept it's weapons and there have been absolutely no hostile moves towards Russia. Russia never keeps it's promises.

Your post seems a resounding yes for a country to have a nuclear deterrent.

It's not simply about Ukraine. There is a much larger strategic picture.

Nope, GG13 definitely not, it is an example of Russia not keeping it's promises.

ronib

Neither has the United States and the United Kingdom presumably? foxie48 Russia believes that there have been hostile moves towards it. That’s the difference.

Examples please Ronib

Sadgrandma

Everything about Trump is fishy. He wants a Nobel prize and doesn’t care who or what he sacrifices to get it.

Very early on I suggested to a friend that I thought Trump was after the Peace prize. They thought that was fanciful. Now it seems to be widely accepted as true. I wouldn't trust either Trump or Putin as far as I could throw them! I truly hope the rest of Nato will support Zelensky and Ukraine as ultimately neither Trump nor Putin will do the decent thing. The world is becoming a very dangerous place with them in power! As for what is going on elsewhere in the world, especially Gaza, I despair of there ever being true peace.
We have just celebrated the anniversary of VJ day yet the world seems more dangerous than ever!

The USA and UK have not kept to their promises to protect Ukraine in any meaningful or effective way. foxie48What protection? How effective?

I think Trump really favours Putin and always has. He seemed to reverse his opinions recently but I think that was to appease European leaders. IMO he will do absolutely anything to get a deal of some kind whatever the terms so that he can brag about how great a deal maker he is and how he ended a war and then pick up his Nobel prize.
Seems he's ignoring the fact that Putin invaded Ukraine so why on earth should they be forced to give up their territories. They could have done this 3 years ago and ended the war then and just be overrun by Putin and his forces but they have fought bravely, endured years of hell without always having the European assistance they merited. What kind of message does that send to Putin and any other aggressor?

Just seen that European leaders are going with Zelenskii, which make absolute sense, as we are all affected in Europe. It is just Ukraine holding the line.

ronib

The USA and UK have not kept to their promises to protect Ukraine in any meaningful or effective way. foxie48What protection? How effective?

"In total, the UK has committed up to £21.8 billion for Ukraine: £13 billion in military support (including our £2.26 billion ERA Loan contribution) up to £5.3 billion in non-military support (including bilateral assistance and fiscal guarantees)"

"Since Russia’s February 2022 invasion, Congress has passed five major bills aiding Ukraine, which together amount to $175 billion in spending. Most of this is aid going to the government of Ukraine, but a large portion is funding other U.S. government activities associated with the war. Additionally, in December 2024 the U.S. provided a $20 billion loan to be paid back with interest from frozen Russian assets. The total amount of aid committed to the government of Ukraine is $128 billion".

Whereas Russia has invaded Ukraine for the second time, stolen children from their families, bombed critical infrastructure necessary to the lives of civilians, Putin is accused of war crimes and has been responsible for sending a million Russians to their death or sustaining injury, and killing thousands of Ukrainian men, women and children,when they had agreed to giving Ukraine a guarantee of security!

Unfortunately it is true about the promise made to Ukraine when they gave uptheir nuclear weapons, in 1992. They would be protected by both the USA and Russia.

Russia has already lost about 10 times plus the amount of soldiers compared to WW2.

I don’t see how this can be sustained.

Putin has managed so far by paying the soldiers more than the average salary in Russia, but I think I read that the economy is slipping and so soldiers wages will be cut back.

Can't understand why Trump would want Ukraine to give land away to Russia. Didn't Trump recently buy some area in the east along with mining rights? Wonder how Trump would feel if he was being pressured to give Alaska back to Russia.

4allweknow

Can't understand why Trump would want Ukraine to give land away to Russia. Didn't Trump recently buy some area in the east along with mining rights? Wonder how Trump would feel if he was being pressured to give Alaska back to Russia.

Probably to gain favour with Putin. He still seems to think if he can be instrumental in stopping the war, he'll get a Nobel Peace Prize.

Two bullies supporting each other.
I feel so sorry for the people of Ukraine.

Puttin mentioned for peace he not only wants the Donbas region he also wants Ukraine to give up being an Independent Sate which I feel is being really harsh.
Does that mean he wants Moldova also.

I believe a lot is due to not only Ukraine being on the boarder of Russia they also want their mines and gran

Whitewavemark2

Russia has already lost about 10 times plus the amount of soldiers compared to WW2.

I don’t see how this can be sustained.

Putin has managed so far by paying the soldiers more than the average salary in Russia, but I think I read that the economy is slipping and so soldiers wages will be cut back.

I don't think that's true WW. Between 8-10 million Soviet troops were killed in WW2. Russia is secretive about how many military deaths there have been in the current conflict, but most estimates seem to be about 250,000 with up to a million injured. That's still a lot, of course - it's about the population of Derby or Plymouth. About 383,600 UK military personnel were killed in WW2.