Angela Rayner - 3 homes now

I’m not cross wuth Angela. I am pleased we made the decision we did
Well done, Iam64

on balance we agreed buying a second home was morally wrong for all of us
It is morally wrong, too, for a Government Minister whose Government is against second home owning to buy a second home.

Lathyrus3

Doodledog

The lower paid, just like the higher paid, can vote for people who have policies of which they approve.

Renters' rights, higher CT for second homes, increased minimum wage, workers' rights, that sort of thing. Not everyone votes out of self-interest and bases their views on outdated notions of 'class'.

Hmm. Fewer houses for rent, higher rents as a consequence, redundancies due to increased costs for businesses, fewer job vacancies, benefits exceeding workers wages….

There’s been another side to that coin I’m afraid.

Time will tell.

I dislike the situation where working people need benefits to live. Anyone working a full week should earn enough to have a decent standard of living, and not depend on handouts, particularly when their employers are making huge profits. Workers are paying tax which goes straight into benefits that make recipients into dependents, and remove their autonomy when it comes to earning extra, getting financial gifts and so on.

The private rental market makes a lot of money for the few at the hands of the many, and the only reason the 'market rate' is so high is because there are so few council houses available at a fair rent.

I'm not sure what to think about the increased NI costs. I do feel that we need to recalibrate the system so 'working people' aren't expected to pay for everything, but I don't know how to make the system fairer, other than to expect everyone to make a financial contribution if they are capable of working. If they don't work, they should still have to pay, either via someone else paying a fair rate in their name or out of whatever money they are living on, with exceptions for children, the old (who have already paid in), the sick and carers for those groups and children under 5. That seems fair to me (although I am not a politician!) but it doesn't seem a popular point of view. IMO nobody is entitled to a free ride, and the benefits of living in the UK cost money, so the costs should be shared fairly.

I think benefits should only be available to those who have contributed a certain amount (with exceptions as above) and there should be a rethink about which conditions qualify for sick pay and protection from being fired. It is ridiculous that employers have to pay people who don't turn up when their jobs are stressful, and it's equally wrong that someone who has paid into a pension for decades can be worse off than someone who hasn't and gets pension credit.

I'm going off topic, but basically I'm saying that we (as a society) need to have a contract that is fair to everyone - employers as well as workers. As it is, too few people are paying for too many, and something has to give. Having so many people unable to afford a home, struggling to make ends meet and seeing no way out of it is why Reform is gaining traction, and why civil unrest is never far from the surface.

Unfortunately, when the government has tried to level things out they have been pounced on, and every attempt has been stalled. They got in on a promise not to raise tax, but when they try to cut benefits instead they are not allowed to do so, and they are stymied. It has to be one or the other, surely?

Lathyrus3

Not sure if it fresh on the bones exactly.

Hansard 29 th Han this year

Angela Rayner

“The government recognises that excessive concentrations of second homes impact on the availability and affordability of homes for local residents to buy and rent…
councils will be able to charge a Council Tax premium but we do not think that is enough..”

In answer to a question
“I understand that pressures are particularly acute because of second homes….”

That was Matthew Pennycook, not AR.

The context was that it was a reply to a question by Tim Farron (Lib Dem) about whether second homes should be treated in the same way as short-term lets (ie Air B&Bs) and made into a 'use class' of their own for the purposes of taxation. The bit about understanding the pressures was because the area represented by TF is Westmorland and Lonsdale, which is in the Lake District, and suffers particularly acutely from the influx of holiday homeowners killing communities.

Source = Hansard Transcript — Commons: 20 January 2025 — Volume 760 — “Second Homes: Use Class” (Oral Answers to Questions)

Again, I am not making a case for second home ownership - far from it - but asking how exactly AR has been hypocritical. So many people have accused her of being so, but not backed up their accusations with anything at all.

A little bit of flesh on the bones from my neck of the woods.
We live in an area where nearly 8% of properties are second/holiday homes, so discussion on this issue is a political hot potato often reported in the local news. Matthew Pennycook is Minister for Housing and Planning, and he always has a lot to say on the issue of holiday homes. Basically he is Angela Rayner's mouth piece as she is Secretary of State for Housing and in overall charge. Anyway, it has been hinted in the House that extra powers to stop holiday lets and second homes may be needed. This will include planning permission as well.

The land transaction and additional taxes on second homes in Wales seem to be having the desired effect, with less second homes being purchased, and more existing ones sold as main residences since it was introduced a couple of years ago, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the UK government go down that route.
I don’t believe that it is government strategy to ban second homes ownership, rather it is to make it more costly for people to go down that route, which will free up housing and benefit the ghost villages where most homes are not occupied full time.

Thanks Doodledogfor your post at 20.15 today.

If my memory isn’t letting me down, Gordon Brown introduced tax credits to ensure work paid. I knew young single parent women who could work 16 hours a week, so keeping their employment experience, self esteem etc and be better off with tax credits than if they hadn’t worked.

A good thing you may think. But I could never really understand why we, the tax payers, were subsidising huge employers like Asda . The supermarkets make huge profits and we shiukd t subsidise their workers

I could never really understand why we, the tax payers, were subsidising huge employers like Asda . The supermarkets make huge profits and we shiukd t subsidise their workers
I couldn't agree more. And someone without children having to work full time for the same money has a right to feel aggrieved. I would like to see free childcare for parents who work (or who are studying) and higher minimum wages so that all FT workers can afford to live. But then employers complain that their profits have been cut and they 'can't afford' to employ people.

What sort of society do we want? One where people work all week and can't afford a house, but employers can have second homes, rental properties and tax subsidies to allow them to pay inadequate wages, or one where people who work have a decent standard of living?

Which government will be brave enough to make necessary changes

Doodledog

Lathyrus3

Not sure if it fresh on the bones exactly.

Hansard 29 th Han this year

Angela Rayner

“The government recognises that excessive concentrations of second homes impact on the availability and affordability of homes for local residents to buy and rent…
councils will be able to charge a Council Tax premium but we do not think that is enough..”

In answer to a question
“I understand that pressures are particularly acute because of second homes….”

That was Matthew Pennycook, not AR.

The context was that it was a reply to a question by Tim Farron (Lib Dem) about whether second homes should be treated in the same way as short-term lets (ie Air B&Bs) and made into a 'use class' of their own for the purposes of taxation. The bit about understanding the pressures was because the area represented by TF is Westmorland and Lonsdale, which is in the Lake District, and suffers particularly acutely from the influx of holiday homeowners killing communities.

Source = Hansard Transcript — Commons: 20 January 2025 — Volume 760 — “Second Homes: Use Class” (Oral Answers to Questions)

Again, I am not making a case for second home ownership - far from it - but asking how exactly AR has been hypocritical. So many people have accused her of being so, but not backed up their accusations with anything at all.

No it as Angela Rayner. Look at Hansard.

As a working class single parent I think I can be critical of Angela Raynor Having also been a council house tennant So she managed to get into politics and what is she doing for the working class nothing

TakeThat7

As a working class single parent I think I can be critical of Angela Raynor Having also been a council house tennant So she managed to get into politics and what is she doing for the working class nothing

Who benefits from the Renters Rights Bill, the increase in minimum wage and the Workers' Rights Bill if not the working class?

She should be making it much more difficult to have second homes like she's priced the working class out of buying their council homes once she had benefited

No it as Angela Rayner. Look at Hansard.

I did.
hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-01-20/debates/A04A24EE-2C3D-49F9-8D12-69EC8E882AEE/SecondHomesUseClass?

The Minister for Housing and Planning
(Matthew Pennycook)
The Government recognise that excessive concentrations of second homes impact on the availability and affordability of homes for local residents to buy and rent, as well as on local services. From April, councils will be able to charge a council tax premium of up to 100% on second homes but, as the hon. Gentleman will know, we do not think this is enough. We are considering what additional powers we might give local authorities to enable them to better respond to the pressures they face.

Tim Farron
I am encouraged by the Minister’s reply. Towns and communities in my constituency, such as Coniston, Hawkshead, Pooley Bridge and a whole range of other beautiful places, have so many second homes that up to 85% of properties are not lived in for most of the year, meaning that the very survival of those communities is under serious threat. The Government have done a number of things, including talking about Toggle showing location of Column 713short-term lets being a separate category of planning use. However, will the Minister agree to look at also making second homes a separate category of planning use so that we can prevent these beautiful places from becoming ghost towns?

Matthew Pennycook
As the hon. Gentleman will know, the previous Government consulted on making short-term lets a different use class, but did not consult on second homes becoming a use class. As part of our wider consideration about the additional powers we might give local authorities, I am more than happy to have a conversation with him. I understand that the pressures in his part of the world are particularly acute because of both second homes and short-term lets.

The Tories increased the minimum wage and made it better for people buying council property when they were in All the prices have gone up so the increase in minimum wage has little effect A packet of cigs is always the equivalent of the minimum wage so people don't benefit No I m not a smoker

I mean an hour's work buys one packet above

I can't see there being a slowdown in the number of properties bought as holiday homes here in Devon, Casdon. The number seems to be going up and up, year on year. This is due to the staycation market, which thanks to the wonderful weather this year will be likely to boom next year. If you buy a house say in Salcombe, where the average price is £1million, you won't be worrying about additional taxes or costs. There's always someone ready to buy.

There’s some dispute about whether AR’s net worth is £4.7 million- not that it is worth worrying about. AR has decided not to accept further donations of clothing from Lord Alli according to the Wiki.
Thinking about the purchase of a second property, it does seem to go against Labour principles in the same way that private schools are frowned upon. But then I think second homes are a sign of privilege and obviously AR is okay with that? So I must respect her judgement and hope that she remembers to pay Capital Gains Tax when the second property is sold.

Doodledog

*No it as Angela Rayner. Look at Hansard.*

I did.
hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-01-20/debates/A04A24EE-2C3D-49F9-8D12-69EC8E882AEE/SecondHomesUseClass?

The Minister for Housing and Planning
(Matthew Pennycook)
The Government recognise that excessive concentrations of second homes impact on the availability and affordability of homes for local residents to buy and rent, as well as on local services. From April, councils will be able to charge a council tax premium of up to 100% on second homes but, as the hon. Gentleman will know, we do not think this is enough. We are considering what additional powers we might give local authorities to enable them to better respond to the pressures they face.

Tim Farron
I am encouraged by the Minister’s reply. Towns and communities in my constituency, such as Coniston, Hawkshead, Pooley Bridge and a whole range of other beautiful places, have so many second homes that up to 85% of properties are not lived in for most of the year, meaning that the very survival of those communities is under serious threat. The Government have done a number of things, including talking about Toggle showing location of Column 713short-term lets being a separate category of planning use. However, will the Minister agree to look at also making second homes a separate category of planning use so that we can prevent these beautiful places from becoming ghost towns?

Matthew Pennycook
As the hon. Gentleman will know, the previous Government consulted on making short-term lets a different use class, but did not consult on second homes becoming a use class. As part of our wider consideration about the additional powers we might give local authorities, I am more than happy to have a conversation with him. I understand that the pressures in his part of the world are particularly acute because of both second homes and short-term lets.

My mistake. I put in Angela Rayner etc and this came up. I should have double checked.

My mistake. I put in Angela Rayner etc and this came up. I should have double checked.

Yes, but they do work in the same Department, so sing from the same song sheet. Pennycook, as Junior Minister, has to support Angela Rayner in her policy making decisions. The directions come from the top.

Unless anyone has actual quotes from AR to add?

Even MP's comments are not saying that Labour policy is to ban second homes, but that they are looking at ways to enable councils to respond to the pressures they cause. They have introduced the higher CT as a step in that direction.

Again, I am not defending the purchase of second homes, but questioning the accusations of hypocrisy.

Agreed.
Though I don't think I've seen the words ban holiday homes on here (??), because that would never happen. It's just that, the softer words coming from her office - put a stop to holiday homes - when Angela Rayner has just "got started" on her holiday property portfolio, do have a bit of hypocrisy about them!

FWIW I'll say again, as a holiday property owner, I have no problem with AR purchasing a second property, but I do understand why it is controversial in her position.

The implication has been that AR has said she would ban holiday homes. If not, where is the hypocrisy? I have asked for someone to show where she has said the government position is to prevent people from buying second homes, and nobody has done so.

I don't approve of second homes, but accept that it is AR's right to buy one, and can't see that it is hypocritical. I don't mean this personally, but I can see hypocrisy in people who do have second homes taking issue with AR having one.

It's just that, the softer words coming from her office - put a stop to holiday homes - when Angela Rayner has just "got started" on her holiday property portfolio, do have a bit of hypocrisy about them!
More than a whiff of hypocrisy under the circumstances.

We are not second home owners and can understand the problems faced in areas where second home owning has become endemic. Residents in places we have visited have said that they are quite deserted in winter months, their children cannot afford to live anywhere near them and second home owners arrive in the summer months and school holidays with a bootful of supplies and do not support local shops at all.
One upside is that these second homes may require renovation and maintenance which provides work - for people who can't afford to live there!

Where are the 'put a stop to holiday homes' words, please?

Making owners compensate councils is one thing (and AFAIK AR will be doing just that), 'putting a stop to them' is quite another, and however much people try to say this is government policy, or that other ministers are simply mouthpieces, or however else they want to make it true I will accept that AR has been hypocritical when I see the hypocrisy, which so far I haven't.

I see everything you describe on a regular basis, Allira. Streets with one light on in November, as nobody is renting the others. Older people isolated as younger ones can't afford to live there. No schools, no WI, no Scout hut. Local shops only opening in summer and even then selling ice cream and alcohol, rather than groceries, so the few remaining residents have to drive to a supermarket - the list goes on, and communities are killed. These are villages, rather than towns, to be fair, but in the town where I live Air B&Bs are also a blight. Owners can register for small business rate relief and avoid paying council tax, so services for residents are cut (and that's without the inconvenience of living next to a succession of people who are holidaymaking, and the impact on house prices for those who want to make the town their home.

Also, people who can't afford to live in villages include teachers, nurses and others who won't be able to make a living renovating houses.

I raise that I am defending something with which I profoundly disagree, but it is a symptom of something I see as important, which is the way in which the current government is attacked from all sides, often on extremely tenuous grounds, and people pick up on and believe the slurs until they become true for many.

The LP needs to do something about their Comms. I find the propaganda machine frightening, and I don't even see what is happening on X. Apparently Musk has abandoned Farage in favour of even further Right personalities such as Robinson. As Musk is the richest man in the world, and has the means to control the narrative that is terrifying.

Also, people who can't afford to live in villages include teachers, nurses and others who won't be able to make a living renovating houses.
Yes. Essential workers.