Reform supporting anti-vaxxers

A mix of intermittent WiFi and a family event means I haven't read or replied to this, I'll look through later.

I am so shocked by today's headlines, which don't include the link I posted but do include the inevitable Daily Fail trumpeting Nadine Dorries urging Boris and Farage to unite to defeat Labour. It's all hyperbole of course but honestly, where are we headed?!

I think I nothing comes without risk and we do need to count vaccines in that, as an acceptable level of risk. Every treatment for an ailment comes with risk from paracetamol to surgery. There is no way to eliminate it.

I often wonder if those who react badly to a vaccine may in fact be those who would have had a much more severe reaction to the illness itself.

Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and was not an anti-vaxer when both he and his father took the covid vaccine. Then his father had a heart attack after he had the shot, which sadly killed him. Malhotra then decided to investigate further and when he started to ask questions and put his head above the parapet, the establishment didnt like it - hence the subsequent furore and attempts to blacken his name.
But as many are now aware, heart issues, myocarditis, pericarditis, cardiac arrests, have been a serious side effect of the jab, alongside other illnesses. Many of us know someone who has been affected.

Quote Kandinsky Sun 07-Sept-25 09:55:20
This is the confusion Maremia - there have been plenty of negativity around the vaccine from day one, but I went ahead because basically the government scared me into it. It was almost like. ‘If you don’t have the vaccine you’ll die’

It’s interesting that the NHS are only offering the Covid vaccine to the over 75’s now. I doubt younger people needed so many covid vaccines.

Younger people had them at the height of the pandemic to protect older contacts, I believe. A younger person in our family refused the vaccine, got Covid, & passed it on to us. Luckily we had been vaccinated and weren’t too badly affected but could have been a lot worse. Remember the ‘Covid parties’? Some younger people died after those. Covid is now endemic in the population and less acutely dangerous. However there is a nasty variant going round now and as I’m not yet 75 I’m sad that I won’t get vaccinated.

InRainbows

I think I nothing comes without risk and we do need to count vaccines in that, as an acceptable level of risk. Every treatment for an ailment comes with risk from paracetamol to surgery. There is no way to eliminate it.

I often wonder if those who react badly to a vaccine may in fact be those who would have had a much more severe reaction to the illness itself.

Blood tests show I've had COVID twice. I didn't know with one and was very ill the other time. Reactions to the infection and the vaccine are hard to predict in my experience.

That was an interseting point made upthread, that perhaps folk who had a bad reaction to the vaccine, would have had a very bad reaction to the actual virus.

Why is it nothing to do with Farage? Does he not have control over who speaks at his conference?

If you work in a hospital, or other setting with immunocompromised people, you will be offered the flu vaccine. (Kandinsky)

Robin202

Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and was not an anti-vaxer when both he and his father took the covid vaccine. Then his father had a heart attack after he had the shot, which sadly killed him. Malhotra then decided to investigate further and when he started to ask questions and put his head above the parapet, the establishment didnt like it - hence the subsequent furore and attempts to blacken his name.
But as many are now aware, heart issues, myocarditis, pericarditis, cardiac arrests, have been a serious side effect of the jab, alongside other illnesses. Many of us know someone who has been affected.

Yes, his father had the Covid vaccine and then had a fatal heart attack, but I've read a couple of papers about this. It is highly likely that it was a coincidence.

Shortly after Kailash Chand's death, his son blamed the delay in sending an ambulance. By the time it arrived, the patient had died. There could very well be something in that, although not all heart attacks are survivable. He then started blaming the Covid vaccine. Unfortunately, it could be that his father had heart problems and his time was up - it happens.

Aseem Malhotra's father, Kailash Chand, had risk factors for heart disease as well as Covid - as do/did many people over about 65. No causal link has been established between the vaccination and Professor Chand's death.

The only way causal links could be spotted is with huge numbers of patients. Comparisons would then need to be made with populations who hadn't been vaccinated but had been exposed to the same level of infection. It's highly unlikely that such a population could be found.

But do you think that Reform is supporting anti vaxxers by having that speaker at their conference?
That was the original question.I don't think we should be talking about covid vaccines, but about whether this known Anti vaxxers appearance and speech means that this is the way Reform is going.

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Kandinsky

I don’t know what to believe anymore regarding the Covid vaccine - but I won’t be having any more & regret the 4 I’ve already had.

I’m exactly the same, except I only have had two….
No way, I would have any more and no way would I be shut down again …

Still avoiding the original question about Reform!

westendgirl

But do you think that Reform is supporting anti vaxxers by having that speaker at their conference?
That was the original question.I don't think we should be talking about covid vaccines, but about whether this known Anti vaxxers appearance and speech means that this is the way Reform is going.

My impression is their populist approach fits with vac scepticism very well. No need to offer clinically tested research, shout something emotional or dramatic like my father had a heart attack post vaccine, feed into concerns we all share about the impact of lock down, the understandable fear and anxiety caused by seeing people go into hospital with the virus and die.

Reform is playing an absolute blinder by winding people up. Feeding understandable anxieties and promising instant solutions to complex problems.

butterandjam

Granatlast007 Sun 07-Sept-25 09:05:53

"I note that any Guardian article appears to be carefully avoided by GN members, well you certainly won't see this on the BBC..."

Neither statement is true. Try harder next time.

Some of us get up early and see early editions of the news and post for interest not mean personal attack in response at the end of the day. As they say in the press 'old news'!!

My daughter worked as a doctor on ITUs during Covid, one week in a covid unit and one week for none covid patients. Anyone having doubts about the vaccine should talk to someone like her. The number of deaths every day on the covid ITU was totally soul destroying for all the staff, not just old people but younger people with their lives ahead of them. Thank your lucky stars if you had it and felt OK, not everyone was so lucky. We have vaccinations to protect others as much as we have them to protect ourselves. All medical interventions carry risks but so does not having a medical intervention, just read the list of really bad adverse reactions some people have to commonly used medications!

Kandinsky

This is the confusion Maremia - there have been plenty of negativity around the vaccine from day one, but I went ahead because basically the government scared me into it. It was almost like. ‘If you don’t have the vaccine you’ll die’

It’s interesting that the NHS are only offering the Covid vaccine to the over 75’s now. I doubt younger people needed so many covid vaccines.

You're misinformed. The NHS (across all 4 nations) currently offers covid vaccine to immune-suppressed people aged over 6 m.

That includes the following;

Organ, bone marrow or stem cell transplant patients
Those being treated with systemic steroids for more than a month
Those living with HIV
Those receiving immunosuppressive or immunomodulating biological therapy, including children who are about to receive therapy
Those undergoing chemotherapy or radiotherapy
Those requiring long-term treatment for immunosuppression
Those with a history of haematological malignancy including chronic leukaemia, lymphomas, and leukaemia
Those with genetic disorders affecting the immune system

www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/

Iam64

westendgirl

But do you think that Reform is supporting anti vaxxers by having that speaker at their conference?
That was the original question.I don't think we should be talking about covid vaccines, but about whether this known Anti vaxxers appearance and speech means that this is the way Reform is going.

My impression is their populist approach fits with vac scepticism very well. No need to offer clinically tested research, shout something emotional or dramatic like my father had a heart attack post vaccine, feed into concerns we all share about the impact of lock down, the understandable fear and anxiety caused by seeing people go into hospital with the virus and die.

Reform is playing an absolute blinder by winding people up. Feeding understandable anxieties and promising instant solutions to complex problems.

That's a very good explanation.

westendgirl

But do you think that Reform is supporting anti vaxxers by having that speaker at their conference?
That was the original question.I don't think we should be talking about covid vaccines, but about whether this known Anti vaxxers appearance and speech means that this is the way Reform is going.

Yes, I do think Reform is supporting anti vaxxers.

I'm more worried about the damage COVID did to my son. He had strokes and heart damage in Sept 2020 at 40 before a vaccine was even available. So it's not the vaccine that caused his problems.

I've just booked my next Covid and flu jabs. Had all previous ones without any problems and not had Covid - touching wood here.

Kandinsky

I don’t know what to believe anymore regarding the Covid vaccine - but I won’t be having any more & regret the 4 I’ve already had.

Why do you regret them? I’ve had at least 4, as has my husband, no ill effects for either of us.

Btw, I think Reform are a complete joke! A very dangerous and contagious joke!

Farage is the biggest hypocrite on our earth. His influence is far reaching, his game plan impossible, “stop the boats in two weeks” sending female refugees back to the Taliban? Irish wife number 1, German wife number 2 and now a very active French far right girlfriend, who owns the recently acquired house in Clacton Farage claimed was his!

Yes. The left wing ideologies have never worked. As for Dr. Malholtra, he is an expert in his field and has studied the effects the vax has had on heart conditions.
No vax, no masks, no social distancing. Same goes for all of my family and not one of us got the renamed flu.

Bestgrammaever

I'm more worried about the damage COVID did to my son. He had strokes and heart damage in Sept 2020 at 40 before a vaccine was even available. So it's not the vaccine that caused his problems.

That's awful, I hope he's recovering. It's like people have forgotten how dangerous COVID was, we had no natural immunity did we as it was a new virus. I remember talking to someone in Italy in February 2020 and he said couldn't we see what was happening in Italy.