I thought the Labour party was meant to be the political party for and of the 'woking class'

I heard Alan Johnson speaking at Dartington Hall some years ago. Such good sense. A Labour man through and through.

I have voted Labour all my life, but hadn't ever joined the party. I was so convinced that Keir Starmer would lead the party with wisdom and care, I joined.

After they went for the elderly and the disabled in their attempt to rake in some £, I left in disgust. The Labour Party has made efforts to get me to rejoin ( me and a lot of other disappointed people, I suspect) but I never will.

Time for Starmer to go for the FAT CATS, not struggling elderly folk and the disabled and sick. Long overdue.

I might even think that MPs should be at least 21 years old, even though Starmer seems to think the opposite in that he wants to lower the age for voters.

If the voting age is lowered to 16, would that mean that 16 and 17 year olds could stand for election as MPs?

Gosh, there seems to be an obsession re so called 'class'.

What about intelligence?
For a long time I have thought that anyone wanting to be an MP should take an intelligence test, and gain an agreed minimum score . They should also be of a minimum age as well. I'm tempted to suggest that all candidates should take a personality test too!
We need MPs from all walks of life, with the intelligence to know how decisions will affect the economy etc, and where to go when needing information about that and other things that will affect most of the population.
I might even think that MPs should be at least 21 years old, even though Starmer seems to think the opposite in that he wants to lower the age for voters. . Perhaps he should be asked to watch a few episodes of ' Educating Yorkshire' on the TV.

It was tongue-in-cheek J52
🙄
(Shakes head in despair)

Didn’t sound it Allira. Hope your heads ok, with all that shaking.

Can someone please define a 'working class person' or even a 'worker'? You would think doctors don't work, bankers don't work and for that matter, MPs don't work. Round here plumbers, painter and decorators, roofers etc all earn as much if not more than many doctors.Does the term working class have any real meaning now? Personally I doubt it.

Ignore above wrong thread

Austerity as based on a flawed data set with missing data. The Osborne austerity years still leave us all poorer for no good reason. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.tiktok.com/%40fryrsquared/video/7326976812322393377&ved=2ahUKEwj5jobpoMmPAxXBXUEAHSNhMr4QtwJ6BAgLEAE&usg=AOvVaw1P3mF0xEBxPKVykvPPHwyZ

AR knew fine well what she was doing or at very least double checked as she was meeting the ministerial code. Hoisted by her own petard I think

Iam64

The free breakfast clubs are aimed at ensuring all children eat something before school, I well remember one six year old arriving sobbing. Miss I’ve missed breakfast clubs and I’ve had nowt since school dinner ……. No miss I can’t eat your banana or you’ll be hungry as well “

I remember a former Children's Commissioner for Wales saying she asked one boy if he enjoyed the long summer school holidays. He said he didn't because he didn't get any dinners in the school holidays. ☹

growstuff
How should people behave to be eligible to vote Labour?

It would appear that having anything beyond basic education and eating with friends round a table disqualifies people.

No one is precluded from voting for Labour. My concern is that so many Labour MPs and those who work for Labour in government come from such a narrow range of occupations, and, given who the party was set up and what their back grounds were and who they wished to represent.

In the current Labour party, someone coming from the same background as its founders is treated as some quite exceptional person who should be praised and looked at in awe.

Such judgement on “working class”, was The Cooper book about working class not knowing how to live with money ?

nanna8

What’s with all this class obsession already ? Nasty.

I thought that generally we’d left all that stuff behind us, but maybe not🤔

What’s with all this class obsession already ? Nasty.

REKA

Jilly Cooper wrote a somewhat amusing book. It was simply called Class. Must have been back in the 70s.

I remember Jilly Coopers observations on class. That book was hilarious! Remember the Nouveau-Riches who had more money than sense?

Jilly Cooper wrote a somewhat amusing book. It was simply called Class. Must have been back in the 70s.

The free breakfast clubs are aimed at ensuring all children eat something before school, I well remember one six year old arriving sobbing. Miss I’ve missed breakfast clubs and I’ve had nowt since school dinner ……. No miss I can’t eat your banana or you’ll be hungry as well “

I don't think Labour are representative of the working class apart from school breakfasts have they done anything for people on low income They changed rules on buying council houses November 25 so it's less easy on a low wages Don't the free breakfast clubs take work away from often working class childminders anyway Single women who need to be around for their children could be childminders

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PoliticsNerd

According to AI research:

If class distinctions in the UK were solely based on income, they might be categorized as follows:

*Upper Class:*
- Extremely high income, typically from wealth, investments, or high-paying executive roles.
- Example income range: £500,000+ annually.

*Upper Middle Class:*
- High income, often professionals, senior managers, or entrepreneurs with substantial earnings.
- Example income range: £100,000 – £500,000 annually.

*Middle Class:*
- Moderate income, including skilled professionals, teachers, mid-level managers.
- Example income range: £40,000 – £100,000 annually.

*Lower Middle Class:*
- Lower-middle income earners, such as clerical workers or lower-tier professionals.
- Example income range: £20,000 – £40,000 annually.

*Working Class:*
- Income from manual or routine jobs, with less job security or benefits.
- Example income range: £10,000 – £20,000 annually.

*Lower Class / Socioeconomically Disadvantaged:*
- Very low income, often facing financial instability.
- Example income below £10,000 annually.

Note: These categories are simplified and hypothetical; actual social class involves cultural, educational, and social factors beyond income alone.

AI is wrong, it can only reflect what is already being written and said. It cannot judge whether what it says is correct.

I would agree with its definions, not with its nomenclature, for the very simple reason that at all income levels you will meet people doing every type of occupation, and having widely varying lifestyles.

For example: those in the population with an income between 40,000 - 100,000 will include a lot of skilled tradespeople, those choosing alternative lifestyles and many who do not really fit into any category.

MaizieD

^I think you'll find there's a significant rural hinterland, which skews the voting profile.^

Being a child at the time I wasn't really aware of the constituency boundaries. When posting I thought there might have been a rural hinterland, but even so, agriculture in the 50s/60s was quite a big employer.

It still was in the 1980s, when I was working in the area. Many of the pretty little villages have now become gentrified. Some of the farmers sold out, but there are still multi-millionaire landowners. Many of the former farm and small factory workers now find that lifestyles have moved on (without taking them with them) and vote Reform. Immigration tends to be from Eastern Europe, so there are arguments about foreigners undercutting their jobs.

It only adds to the negative complaining about Angela Rayner’s very existence

MaizieD

^The problem is that this class discourse plays well with Labour activists, they like it, it fits their world viewpoint, to admit it was irrelevant and that nowadays socio economic divisions go far more with income than occupation, would undermine their basic thinking about moneyed toffs and poor oiks.^

Does this view really apply to contemporary Labour activists?

I'm not a member, not an activist, so I only pick up what is going on in the party from commentators and political journalists.

Do we have any 'activists here on Gnet who can speak to your view, MOnica?

i can only go on what I hear Labour party activists and those in government circles say in public and that which is reported.

Much was made of Angela Rayners, poor, working class background by her in-party supporters in recent events.

Of course Angela Rayner benefitted from being allocated a council house as a single Mum and then again by being allowed to buy it.
True, but that neither adds to nor detracts from my point, does it?

According to AI research:

If class distinctions in the UK were solely based on income, they might be categorized as follows:

*Upper Class:*
- Extremely high income, typically from wealth, investments, or high-paying executive roles.
- Example income range: £500,000+ annually.

*Upper Middle Class:*
- High income, often professionals, senior managers, or entrepreneurs with substantial earnings.
- Example income range: £100,000 – £500,000 annually.

*Middle Class:*
- Moderate income, including skilled professionals, teachers, mid-level managers.
- Example income range: £40,000 – £100,000 annually.

*Lower Middle Class:*
- Lower-middle income earners, such as clerical workers or lower-tier professionals.
- Example income range: £20,000 – £40,000 annually.

*Working Class:*
- Income from manual or routine jobs, with less job security or benefits.
- Example income range: £10,000 – £20,000 annually.

*Lower Class / Socioeconomically Disadvantaged:*
- Very low income, often facing financial instability.
- Example income below £10,000 annually.

Note: These categories are simplified and hypothetical; actual social class involves cultural, educational, and social factors beyond income alone.

Doodledog

One of the biggest problems for all parties is that we have become a dependent society. Many people are working but need to claim benefits to survive, and too few people are working to support those who don't (whether those not working are pensioners, the unemployed, people who have chosen not to work, the sick, disabled or whatever).

Rents and house prices are insanely high, and food prices are rising, yet at the mention of an increase in the NMW there is outcry. I do understand that business owners are also workers and need to make a profit, but how have we reached the point where people can work all week but need benefits to pay the rent and eat, never mind start a family?

The only way I can see to sort it out is to do something radical about housing. I'm not sure what can be done without political suicide, though. People are (understandably) very invested in their homes and the value of them, and would take a decrease very badly, yet it is vital that people have some incentive to work - would you want to bother if you were going to have to claim benefits anyway, with all the loss of privacy and autonomy that entails?

If we want to look back, the problem started with the sale of the council houses which used to provide secure housing to working people at a reasonable rent. The sales allowed those who bought them to make a quick profit, but removed the underpinning that enabled people to live a decent life on a moderate wage. This has destabilised the low to middle end of the employment market, as people need to earn so much more than before in order to pay rent or mortgage (often on a house that used to be owned by the local authority). People delay having children, as wages don't stretch to childcare on top of rent, and most families can't survive on one income.

I know Angela Rayner was working on building more houses at the cheaper end of the market, and I sincerely hope that her work is carried on now that she's gone. I really feel that it is vital that people can see the point of working, and can live a decent life on even minimum wage. Further initiatives could stabilise society further, such as free childcare for working parents, and subsidised basic foodstuffs across the board. Anything else is tinkering around the edges, I think.

Of course Angela Rayner benefitted from being allocated a council house as a single Mum and then again by being allowed to buy it.