Can Starmer survive? The wolves are circling in the Labour Party.

growstuff, another time when I read your last post and agreed. I’m afeared we will be accused of being a clique 🤣

Keir Starmer is totally unsuited to be Prime Minister. He may have been a very successful Director of Public Prosecutions but at heart he is an adminstrator not a politician, in the sense that to be a really good politician you have got to have your finger and mind on all the shifts and balances and negotiations and juggling deals needed to keep everybody onboard and avoid one catastrophe after another. if Stramer had had a politiciaans ability to read the wind, he would not ever have considered ppointing Mandelson as British Ambassador to the USA, he ignored the advice, he ignored the wide antipathy and dislike of Mandelson. He just thought he was the best man for the job and gave it to him, and this has happened again and again, right back to the free clothes from Lord Ali, the Rayner affair. Again and again, he failed to read the mood understand which way the wind was blowing.

He is a disaster as a Prime Minister and should be replaced asap. Who by, who knows, but anyone but him. How about Peter Mandelson, now he is a political operator of the first degree, and would be superb at the job, ah, yes, there is the rub, setting aside that he is not an MP, his recent disgrace, his previous disgraces, the general fear and dislike of him, his murky past, all those things that made his appointment to Washington so wrong all mean, here as well, however skilled a political operator he may be, he is too generally disliked and mistrusted to hold any great post.

My goodness, MOnica. That's an even more 'interesting' suggestion than that of Angela Rayner!

We've already had to endure one corrupt PM,heaven save us from another one...

I had high hopes of Wes Streeting and,while the numbers are looking better, he is not being half as radical as he suggested.

MaizieD

My goodness, MOnica. That's an even more 'interesting' suggestion than that of Angela Rayner!

We've already had to endure one corrupt PM,heaven save us from another one...

Actually I would sooner have a 'corrupt' PM who really is good at the job and improves the conditions of the people in the UK and our standing in the world to having a sea green incoruutible in charge of the government who cannot govern and is a laughing stock overseas.

Do you have any compelling reason to suggest that a man who adores the wealthy has the slightest inclination to 'improve the condition of the people in the UK, MOnica

According to an article in the DM[I can hear the groans from here[obvs I cant but you can pre guess what the reaction is]]
the Country is not being truly run by Sir Kier at all. But by people who have close links with Tony Blair.
That makes sense to me.

If Rayner with benefit of legal advice can't understand her tax liability how could she be expected to understand detailed policy in a wide range of different circumstances if she were PM?

Incorruptible? Starmer ? You’re having a laugh.

I'm beginning to wonder whether Starmer was ever cut out for the job in the first place. I know he has had his fair share of political disasters as PM, and he has dealt with them stoically and fairly efficiently, but he still cannot quite command that trusting presence that is needed in a PM at this moment in time. I'm not sure he has learnt to listen, and he has now had long enough not to be a failure in that area, or at least to improve.

So, poor comms, poor management and questions raised for me about Keir Starmer’s judgement. I don’t want a new leader, I want Keir Starmer to shape up. He isn’t incompetent and needs to front this with honesty, confidence, even recognition he got thus wrong

Sums it up nicely I think. But I also think he wont manage it to be honest. So change is needed but no idea who or how. I do think we Streeting has potential but too soon for him. After that ...Hmmm!

Wes Streeting not "we"!

Starmer is proving to be a very weak leader, I agreed with most of his aims and objectives, most of which he’s done a U turn on.
Talking about “core Labour values” is not the answer the economy has to support the social spending we make, MPs have to support the leadership policy. If savings on welfare cannot be made taxation has to be increased, that has to come from the majority of the population. Any notion that significant revenue is going to be gained for the top 0.5% of the population is fanciful it’s going to be paid by the 99.5%

MaizieD

Do you have any compelling reason to suggest that a man who adores the wealthy has the slightest inclination to 'improve the condition of the people in the UK, MOnica

It is because he is such a crawler - and a very devious and manipulative man that Mandelson would actually make a rather good PM.

I wouldn't want to work with him and would not trust him further than I could see him with my eyes tight shut, but in a world where the key players on the world stage are people like Trump, Putin and Xi, he would be able to match them when it came to being a devious little sh*t and probably out manouvre them.

We have seen Starmer trying to play it on the big stage and he is a disaster, just because he isn't a big sh*t.

Starmer is your old fashioned boys comic cricketer, stands tall, looks the world in the eye, plays a straight bat and is as honest and guileless the day is long, he hasn't got a political (in the devious, mixing and matching style) fibre in his body. This is why he is a disaster.

So, poor comms, poor management and questions raised for me about Keir Starmer’s judgement. I don’t want a new leader, I want Keir Starmer to shape up. He isn’t incompetent and needs to front this with honesty, confidence, even recognition he got thus wrong

You are wanting Keir Starmer to be something he isn't. he is what he is and nothing will change the essential man.

he is a classic example of the Peter Principle. The principle suggests that people are promoted based on their success in their current role, not on their potential for the higher-level position, leading to employees eventually reaching a position where they lack the necessary skills to succeed, thereby becoming incompetent in that role.

This is what has happened to Starmer. As DPP he was a success, so he has been 'promoted' to being leader of the Labour party and Prime Minister and, for him, this is the position where he lacks the necessary skills to succeed, thereby becoming incompetent in that role

He is not up to the job, and never will be, he had best go..

Yes, MOnica, but you haven’t told me anything that is evidence that Mandelson has any desire to ‘improve the condition of the people’ (apart from the wealthy, of course).

In a UK that is falling apart because ‘the people’ are experiencing hardship and strained public services I think that element is rather important in a future PM.

I may be wrong of course but imo Starmer needs to banish Morgan McSweeny and appoint someone with the political nouse to read the room at home, Starmer is working well on the international stage. He seems to be leading there based on his genuine belief systems, but not at home.

The mismanagement of WFA and pip was shocking. Starmer was right on both counts. If the plans had been properly discussed within the party I’m sure amendments and proper timing of announcements wouldn’t have led to the u turns.

MOnica
You’re not alone with that idea. Talking with friends yesterday my partner, a card carrying member of the Labour Party until Corbyn put that suggestion forward.
As you pointed out the world is ruled by despots so why not have our own one at the top table.

MaizieD
Your correct. Mandelson doesn’t give a flying about the man in the street. His raison d’etra is power. He’s clever enough to know and understand what makes us happy thereby keeping him in power.

petra

MOnica
You’re not alone with that idea. Talking with friends yesterday my partner, a card carrying member of the Labour Party until Corbyn put that suggestion forward.
As you pointed out the world is ruled by despots so why not have our own one at the top table.

Wanting a despot at the helm?
My gosh.
Think how they all treat their own citizens.

I wouldnt want one in a million years.

I do not think Mandelson is a despot, but I do think that he is as devious and nasty as Trump, putin and Xi and probably a darn sight cleverer.

And for a world power, whose power has wained, the economic success of the country does actually depend more on how we stand internationally than it does for other countries.

I might add Maizie that I see no evidence that the current government, under any leader, is capable of improving the living conditions of anyone, rich or poor.

They bleat on about it constantly, but everything they do just makes matters worse or has no effect at all. Come to that I do not see that any other party is capable of it either.

For years Tommy Robinson and Farage have been trying to be rabble rousers and catch a crowd, but wothout success. It was only when this current govenment got in and began to make clear that it is no better, if not worse than what went before that suddenly these two rabble rousers started collecting the crowds.

Mandelson is fundamentally devious and dishonest but he has a fatal flaw; he thinks he is more clever than anyone one else. He is not, which is why he keeps getting caught out.

Starmer's heart is in the EU and if he has a plan it is to return Britain to Europe, hence the toadying. Not an international figure
Once Trump's visit to the royal family has concluded it will be interesting to see if we are granted any more favours.

Oreo

Starmer isn’t doing well but the thought of Rayner being PM or Andy Burnham either makes me gulp!
Starmer has time yet to make his mark but needs to stop blowing with the wind and be proactive not reactive.

Yes, he's better than the alternative.

He does need to think carefully before he speaks and not keep changing his mind on important issues.

Doodledog

Sorry, that was badly worded. I meant that I wouldn't have a clue about paying SDLT on a house when I didn't own another one (as it was in trust), In other words I understand AR's confusion.

Ms Rayner was advised to take further advice on the issue which she did not do.
She did resign which was the right thing to do and it is too soon for her to make a comeback although I'm sure she will in the future.

Starmer did sack Mandelson and quite rightly but he should never have said he was standing by him.

It's one mistake and U turn after another, unfortunately.