This must be a sad day for England

foxie48

I do wonder what all those "nice family people" who went on a march with known thugs, thought they were protesting about and what they thought waving those jolly flags represented? Did they think Tommy Robinson would make cheese rolling a national sport or ensure that morris dancing was on the school curriculum. I've yet to hear anyone explain cogently what "pride in being English" actually means. To an interested observer it looks pretty much like xenophobia/racism with a big dash of Islamophobia for good measure. It's certainly not the qualities that I associate with being English, ie fair play, love of the under dog, tolerance, self deprecation etc. So someone, please tell me, why did those people turn out on a Saturday morning in London to march with a load of thugs?

Good post Foxie.

Babs03 and growstuff totally agree with you that most Muslims are lovely people. I have a good friend, a doctor locally, she attended Hadj last year.

However.
There is a flip side to all this kumbaya.

Why is that school teacher who was hounded out by a baying mob in Batley still in hiding all these years on?

It’s not all flowers and lollipops. Good and bad in all religions.
I’m a Humanist so I have no skin in the game but I do like fairness. In everything and for everyone.

Nowt wrong with that!

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Or a joyous reminder of what it is to be British. An amazing sight. Families, young and old, peacefully protesting. Lots and lots of women are there, I notice and not a few black people, too.
And thousands upon thousands of flags.
🇬🇧

And a right royal punch up, makes you proud to be Engerlush don't it. I mean it's a not a proper day out without wrapping yerself in a flag, drinkin 10 pints and breaking a coppers teef eh FGT2?

LizzieDrip

Whitewavemark2

By all means support Tommy Robinson the ex-football hooligan.

By all means show your support for the anti-Muslim bigot.

By all means show your support for Islamaphobia.

By all means show your support for white supremicists.

By all means show your support for someone known as a violent school bully.

And by all means show your support for an ex-convict for violence, corruption and hate speech.

At least we are all now clear where you stand.

Agreed WW at least we’ve seen colours nailed to masts now. Good to know!

I've known exactly what the colours were of various posters here, hat's why they say I am aggressive as I have zero time for their nonsense.

You just sound silly.

I’m not a TR supporter in any shape or form, but the people there were not contributing to or participating in the violence.
But some posters just love blanket condemnations.
So presumably by their measure, any violence in so called Pride gatherings, processions or protests is the responsibility of all attendees and they should all be condemned.
So now we’ve seen their colours nailed to the mast.

MayBee70

I’m a bit confused that the very people that are worried about Sharia courts in this country seem to be in favour of us being taken out of the ECHR which protects us ..

Good point, well made MayBee70.

Am wondering how many of those now willing to see TR as a man with a valid point
actually know that both he and his henchmen are known to be antisemitic, often tattooing the swastika on parts of their body, and are regular Holocaust deniers.
Indeed Jewish leaders recently insisted that TR and his ilk didn’t attend a march against antisemitism because they would hijack it to have a go at Muslims.
Perhaps those who now support him do know this and are either also antisemites or think there is nothing wrong with getting in bed with Nazis in order to air their own discontents.
Would be interesting if those who support him on this thread could tell me which category they are in.

The question is (should be) why is it that a growing sector of the population is so disenfranchised with mainstream politics?

Why are they so concerned for their children in this changing UK?

Why has TR been held up as a paragon of British Unity ?

Our current PM maybe should address these issues?

Allira

MayBee70

The government are having to deal with Reform, a party whose main means of getting into power is to divide the country as much as possible.

And how is that possible, I wonder? 🤔

Possible due to a large number of low intelligence people who eagerly consume propaganda from rags like the Mail, Express, Telegraph and outlets like GB News and Fox. Their lives have got harder and they are presented with an 'other' to blame, while all the owners of the media outlets laugh all the way to the bank.

Well I listened to TR's speech, at least what was on Conservative Woman's website and yes, it's exactly what you would expect. It's anti immigration, Islamophobic and he thinks he's at the start of a counter cultural revolution. The mob brayed and clapped every time he made a racist comment, so basically he was throwing red meat out to a crowd of yobs hungry for their racism to be given credibility. He said it was the biggest march ever but over 300,000 turned out to support fox hunting, so on that basis many more people want to chase foxes than chase immigrants! Make of that, what you will but I'm quietly pleased (and no I have never hunted).
Kathy Gyngell said it was like Shakespeare to a very small extent, I reluctantly agree. Shakespeare knew his audience and so does TR but he's no wordsmith!
He also mentioned the millions of flags flying across the country, so those who thought they were flying the flag to reclaim it, he thought they were there to support his bigoted views.
He's definitely an extreme Islamophobe, mentioned several Islamic nationalities by name and tbh I think that's why a lot of people follow him. He started Pegida UK some years ago, so no surprise there. As others have said, I've noticed a rise in Islamophobia and seen a good many Anti Islamic posts on GN so it's reach pickings ATM.
Don't bother to listen to him, he's vile.

Primrose53

StripeyGran

Primrose53

I noticed most of the counter protestors, as usual, had their faces covered. Black masks as usual.

Because somebody will come after them and kick the out of them? Possibly?

Ridiculous.

No, activist friends of mine have had that happen to them.

So it's not ridiculous.

Thanks.

Aveline

It is an enormous pity that this demonstration deteriorated into such a violent stramash. Typical of the sort of men just looking for a fight. However, the vast majority of those attending were there in good faith as they're unhappy at the way things are going here. Unfortunately those thugs have ruined the value of this mass expression of a lot of people's feelings.

Would you say the same about the Nottinghill Carnival? I suspect not.

GrannyGravy13

The question is (should be) why is it that a growing sector of the population is so disenfranchised with mainstream politics?

Why are they so concerned for their children in this changing UK?

Why has TR been held up as a paragon of British Unity ?

Our current PM maybe should address these issues?

Start a new thread?

You or Monica who raised the same point?

Anniebach

25 arrests yesterday. 890 arrests Action Palestine ,

It’s so wrong to say of all on the march yesterday ‘thought they were protesting about’, I am sure they knew why they were there

The average age of the people arrested on Palestine Action seemed to be about 80. I think the acid test is the number of violent offences committed. I think that would skew your figures the opposite way.

Action Palestine don’t have more arrests because of violence. It has been declared an illegal/terrorist group that cannot gather on our streets so the police have to try to arrest everyone, which is such a wasted use of police time when those attending one of these demos are not violent or in any way terrorists.

43

The flagshagging is not about ‘preserving British culture’. It’s about hate and division promoted by Tommy Robinson of far-right racism fame. Some naive people think it’s about patriotism but they are delusional. It’s nationalism not patriotism. Its cringe.
Oswald Mosley had a big following in the 1930s - there’s always been a far right aggressive and loud mouthed minority. If you look at the numbers who turned out for the anti Brexit and anti war marches this was small.

foxie48

Well I listened to TR's speech, at least what was on Conservative Woman's website and yes, it's exactly what you would expect. It's anti immigration, Islamophobic and he thinks he's at the start of a counter cultural revolution. The mob brayed and clapped every time he made a racist comment, so basically he was throwing red meat out to a crowd of yobs hungry for their racism to be given credibility. He said it was the biggest march ever but over 300,000 turned out to support fox hunting, so on that basis many more people want to chase foxes than chase immigrants! Make of that, what you will but I'm quietly pleased (and no I have never hunted).
Kathy Gyngell said it was like Shakespeare to a very small extent, I reluctantly agree. Shakespeare knew his audience and so does TR but he's no wordsmith!
He also mentioned the millions of flags flying across the country, so those who thought they were flying the flag to reclaim it, he thought they were there to support his bigoted views.
He's definitely an extreme Islamophobe, mentioned several Islamic nationalities by name and tbh I think that's why a lot of people follow him. He started Pegida UK some years ago, so no surprise there. As others have said, I've noticed a rise in Islamophobia and seen a good many Anti Islamic posts on GN so it's reach pickings ATM.
Don't bother to listen to him, he's vile.

Thanks foxie48 👏👏👏

I must admit I’m feeling weary and sad to read anti Islamic posts on GN.

Islamophobia appears to be legitimised in UK society now.

It’s ‘othering’; Muslims today; a different minority group tomorrow. We appear to have entered an age of ‘might is right’; he who shouts loudest is the only voice that’s heard; little empathy for fellow humans.

I genuinely thought we were a better country than that.

I’m old so I can take it or leave it … but I fear for my grandchildren.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Babs03 and growstuff totally agree with you that most Muslims are lovely people. I have a good friend, a doctor locally, she attended Hadj last year.

However.
There is a flip side to all this kumbaya.

Why is that school teacher who was hounded out by a baying mob in Batley still in hiding all these years on?

It’s not all flowers and lollipops. Good and bad in all religions.
I’m a Humanist so I have no skin in the game but I do like fairness. In everything and for everyone.

Nowt wrong with that!

A Humanist? An Atheist, maybe but Humanists UK promote tolerance, empathy and kindness. I've not seen much evidence of this in some of your recent posts. Also, your "some of my best friends are muslim" is a bit of a cliche.

Mollygo

I’m not a TR supporter in any shape or form, but the people there were not contributing to or participating in the violence.
But some posters just love blanket condemnations.
So presumably by their measure, any violence in so called Pride gatherings, processions or protests is the responsibility of all attendees and they should all be condemned.
So now we’ve seen their colours nailed to the mast.

If that's aimed at me yes I'm anti violence and anyone choosing to support a racist march that was likely to end in violence are supporting that violence. I'm proud of my colours.

vegansrock

43

The flagshagging is not about ‘preserving British culture’. It’s about hate and division promoted by Tommy Robinson of far-right racism fame. Some naive people think it’s about patriotism but they are delusional. It’s nationalism not patriotism. Its cringe.
Oswald Mosley had a big following in the 1930s - there’s always been a far right aggressive and loud mouthed minority. If you look at the numbers who turned out for the anti Brexit and anti war marches this was small.

When I started work in the 60s I worked with a woman who remembered Oswald Mosley campaigning in her area. Her take was "silly buggers lapped it up, he was promising them gold bath taps and all they had was a lav in the back yard ". Made me laugh.

Yes laughing at the poor that's a movement I want to join.

She was as poor as the rest of them, I wasn't born. Being stupid has nothing to do with being poor, plenty of poor people saw through him. Would you want gold bath taps when you hadn't got a bath?

fancythat

GrannyGravy13

The question is (should be) why is it that a growing sector of the population is so disenfranchised with mainstream politics?

Why are they so concerned for their children in this changing UK?

Why has TR been held up as a paragon of British Unity ?

Our current PM maybe should address these issues?

Start a new thread?

You or Monica who raised the same point?

I’ve read through this long and irritable thread. Its encouraged me to ask the question posed in GrannyGravy’s comment. At the risk of raising the ever present ghost of Brexit, I’m always concerned when the intelligence of a large proportion of our population is suggested as lower than average because they don’t share ‘our’ more tolerant views.

I listened to the news and Paddy O’Connel’s radio 4 programme this morning. It added to my despair and had mr thinking it’s time Keir Starmer addressed the nation. I’ve neen a Starmer supporter, our country feels rudderless and drifting into dangerous waters. . This week on top of awful comms and changes of direction mean we need leadership we can trus

I loathe people being called stupid as well. It is why we are where we are.