Why do so many people support Reform, and Tommy Robinson

So much for it being revolutionary or anti establishment.

So they are in fact, ordinary? Middle of the road?

If reform succeed it will not be because of the media ( who has increasingly less influence) it will be because everyone has spent the last few years describing ordinary people as far right.
Some of us have been trying to warn about this for some time.
People have been voting for the last ten years on the immigration issue, they voted Brexit ( yes I know that's complex in terms of immigration) they voted Johnson, etc etc. No one listened, in fact worse than that they called them stupid, and bigots. So no I don't think reform will be able to solve the problem but I completely understand why people would think it is the only way to turn.

What else would you like them to do.

fancythat

^Also they won’t be able to sort out illegal immigration either.^

Why not?
Though I dont know peoperly what they have said the plans are.

You don’t know because they don’t really have a plan, in interview last week Farage admitted to have very little political knowledge.
Unless the UK has safe routes for asylum seekers into the UK it cannot beat the gangs, and we need to have closer ties with Europe so that asylum seekers can apply to the UK from European designated countries. Then we need to get rid of the Home Office and have a streamlined service that fast tracks genuine asylum seekers into work, because we need the work force.
As far as I know Farage is not suggesting any of this.

valdavi

But the thing is, Maggie Thatcher's government, for instance, very few (no?) ethnic minorities, very few women, lots of public-school educated rich men who themselves would have admitted they didn't feel they had much in common with the hoi-polloi. Econpomic problems rife. 3 day week and electric.And <70% turnout.
So why are this government less connected? Because that's what the general public is beiung told from all sides??Because on any objective measure, they're more connected.

A disproportionate number of MPs are Oxbridge graduates.

A staggering number of prime ministers have been Oxford graduates including all three women prime ministers, Labour PMs Harold Wilson and Tony Blair. Keir Starmer studied at Oxford as a post graduate.

There have also been several PMs who were Cambridge graduates.

Our three Labour mps live in their constituencies, work hard and demonstrate commitment to traditional Labour beliefs

I’m not suggesting Starmer hasn’t let people down, he has. He needs to be more visible and effective at home, rather than only on the international stage. we want to see his stated beliefs in action. We need him to organise an effective comms team the current team is failing big time

He was roundly criticised for stating the obvious truth, thst things would get worse before improving, 14 years of dedicated wrecking of public services was never going to be fixed quickly

Farage knows that Reform cannot stop small boat arrivals. He claimed his party would stop them withing two weeks of taking power. The he rowed back (he is very good at that) saying it would be two weeks after passing legislation. Even if Reform had a large Commons majority he would come up against the House of Lords.

If Farage wanted to withdraw the UK from the ECHR, Parliament would need to approve a new Act of Parliament to repeal or replace the Human Rights Act 1998, which currently incorporates ECHR rights into UK law. The House of Lords would be involved in this legislative process, as with any other bill, requiring approval from both Houses of Parliament to pass the necessary legislation.

At conference, Rees Mogg said Reform would need to pack the Lords with 500 Reform peers. Here would they find them? Among their millionaire and billionaire tax exile donors?

Nominees for peerage are subject to external vetting by the House of Lords Appointments Commission. Even if approved, the King would have a constitutionally right to block.

Here’s the current chair and members of the Commission.

lordsappointments.independent.gov.uk/the-commission-2

Baroness (Ruth) Deech is chair. Many of her family were murdered by the Nazis. I doubt she would have any truck whatsover with Farage. We all know his history.

On that Commission, Farage would also come up against Wayne Reynolds. He is the founder and managing director of Birchwood Knight, an executive search company specialising in corporate affairs leadership roles. He helps a wide range of organisations across the public and private sectors to run fair and thorough recruitment processes which promote diversity, equity and inclusion. DEI. Something Reform doesn’t like at all.

Farage may think he’s on an end run into Number 10 before 2029. Doing the job will be a lot harder. I think he’ll run away.

Galaxy

If reform succeed it will not be because of the media ( who has increasingly less influence) it will be because everyone has spent the last few years describing ordinary people as far right.
Some of us have been trying to warn about this for some time.
People have been voting for the last ten years on the immigration issue, they voted Brexit ( yes I know that's complex in terms of immigration) they voted Johnson, etc etc. No one listened, in fact worse than that they called them stupid, and bigots. So no I don't think reform will be able to solve the problem but I completely understand why people would think it is the only way to turn.

What else would you like them to do.

The people you speak of may not be bigots or stupid but they don’t represent the whole electorate either, they are a percentage of the electorate and what I would want them to do is irrelevant, they will do as they wish.
The reason they are increasingly referred as ‘the far right’ is because they are being influenced by people on the far right, people like Yaxley Lennon a well known racist and criminal with a long charge sheet, who has named himself Tommy Robinson after a notorious football hooligan. He and his ilk tattoo themselves with swastikas and like nothing better than a good old fashioned brawl. He and his pals have been charged in the past with GBH and domestic abuse. Nice.
Farage isn’t in the same league but his far right credentials are the same.
So no, those who ally themselves with these people may not be far right but they soon will be if they continue to swallow their lies.

Sorry but that tactic isn't going to work, in what way are those who believe reforms lies any different than those who believe Labour or the Tories lies. I believed Labour would champion safeguarding ( not appoint a man linked to Epstein), swallowing lies is not unique to Reform voters.
I am afraid I don't think reform are far right ( I am centre left) and very rarely think that phrase has any meaning any more.

Ok, so what or whom do you see as far right? You keep saying that the term is meaningless, so are you suggesting that there are no far right political beliefs or believers?

They won’t all have been Reform, or TR supporters in London at the weekend.
I know of some people who voted for labour, went down to that rally.
Some very down to earth people, who are totally fed up with the current amount of people landing on our shores.

I support Reform because as a lifelong conservative voter I think they have lost the way. I want a very hard line on immigration. I also want a part which will throw out all this net zero. woke and diversity rubbish and put the people who were born in this country first. In fact Reform are not really enough to the right for me.

The inhabitants of the Westminster Village have let us down badly on migration - both of the main parties. The Tories were all talk but no effective action and Starmer's "Smash the Boats" has also been nothing more than hot air. And Starmer is a cardboard cut-out character, at best.

The current administration also kicked Pensioners in the teeth by axing the Winter Fuel Allowance - and although restored Reeves has damaged Labour fatally - the two-child benefit cap is still in place which is simply cruel. Scandals abound, ministers being showered with freebies by rich party donors, Rayner had to resign, Mandelson had to be sacked, a senior aide to the PM has just resigned under a cloud and it just goes on and on.

Meanwhile, we, the peasants are clinging onto life as we used to know it by our fingernails. And the politicos just don't care about us.

And that is why Reform is romping away in the popularity race.

There is a new style of politics. The far right led gathering in London was not any 'ordinary people' suddenly feeling political. There has been for some time a social media push to destabilise the country using as many useful idiots as can be mustered to do it. It's a style poached and tested in the USA that successfully brought the most dangerous President into power. A President destabilising Democracy.
The same tactics were used successfully to bring Hitler to power. People looking for quick fixes to problems regardless of their complexity. Tory politicians switching to populist Reform looking to keep their incomes rather than being prepared to fight for the sustainable change the country needs and Tory voters unwilling to admit the 14 years and 5 Prime Ministers they produced failed the country and brought it to were it is now.
It's hard to imagine how roundabout painters, flag flyers and hotel shouters who openly break the law, disturb the peace, intimidate people and vandalise our towns can be seen as the way forward for our country.
Harder still to imagine how the likes of Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage can be entrusted with the welfare of our population. Farage cares so little about his constituents and Parliament he is rarely anywhere near them! He has failed to improve the lives of his constituents, yet Reform voters think he can be entrusted to improve the lives of people across the UK!
Farage worships Trump and takes his political direction from that morally bankrupt man. Like Trump, he cares first and last for himself.
To openly see our police being attacked by these right wing so called 'protesters was scary. I wonder how many of those so called 'ordinary people' are engaged in positive community service work in their communities? Or have they only got time for flag waving and responding to Tommy Robinson's and Farage's dog whistle?
Do people really think Reform has the answer to what is wrong in our country? Have the heard Farage talk anything except 'slogans' that people can repeat? Have they ever seen an honest workable and fully costed policy from him? Have they seen him admire anybody but Trump and Musk Andrew Tate? Scary.

Funny how people choose to ignore just how badly Farage and Johnson's Brexit has damaged our country. That Brexit would benefit us was the biggest lie told in recent history. It's brought significant long term damage to the UK economy.

As for the Winter Fuel Allowance, brought in by Labour, it needed to go to those in need, not to every pensioner. For many it became a Christmas bonus more than an essential income stream.
People also forget how Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson showed utter contempt for Parliament. Johnson tried to Prorogue it and Rees Mogg chose to lie across the benches in debate. Johnson also thought it appropriate to party during Covid, and talk Peppa Pig garbage to the captains of British Industry. And who could forget the crash brought by Liz Truss?
Funny how these names are now in Farage's back pocket and yet people think Reform can be trusted with our future!

They’re all bad. That’s the truth. I doubt Farage would be any better but I suppose people have to have hope and at the moment he’s it. Our mob here are just as bad,if not worse,than your lot in the UK. Hard for all of us.

Not reform doodledog.
Many of the things I associate with the far right are control of speech, arresting people for speech, flying a swastika, harassment of Jewish people etc and they are being carried out by the other 'side'. So it is quite complex.
I absolutely agree that the far right are out there which is why people using it for anyone they disagree with is so dangerous.

100% spot on in my opinion. How people cannot see the failings of both Labour and the Conservatives during the past forty or fifty years is beyond me.
Those that cannot see it can only be paying cursory attention to current affairs (probably via the biased BBC and 'Sly' news) and maybe don't have - or do not make - the time to look closely and critically at the behaviour of politicians or their so-called 'achievements'.
I am not a supporter of TR but I would urge people to listen to his address to the Oxford Union which changed my perception of him. I am politically homeless; Reform are simply becoming an alternative party for those that cannot be bothered to scrutinise politics and manifestos.
It's really concerning because many academics believe we are heading for a period of serious political unrest. Society is becoming fragmented. There are simply too many people breaking the law and entering the country illegally when we have no adequate infrastructure. Doesn't matter what colour they are (this 'far right' label is becoming tiresome); we have laws and procedures.
And do not get me started on media blackouts. The media is there these days as a propaganda mouthpiece do you really think that the media is there to serve 'us plebs'?

Sorry, I was trying to agree with a previous poster. Not great with this 'add coment' / 'quote' malarkey!

As far as I can see Reform are riding high because Farage's ideas are becoming increasingly popular with voters. For too long this country has had Tory & Labour Governments who are ineffectual. 14 years of Tory rule left the country in a worse state than when they came to power and as for Labour, their first year has been abysmal. People want this merry-go-round to stop. They want a party who will put Britain first and will tackle the major issues that concern so many of us. Reform and Tommy Robinson give us a glimmer of hope that Britain can be Great Britain once more.

friendlygingercat, diversity " rubbish" supports women/ those with a disability/ people of colour/ folk from disadvantaged backgrounds/to be represented in the workforce. Most of these people will have been born in Britain. Many have used this as a stepping stone to positions of influence.
Would you prefer these appointments to go exclusively to white men from certain schools only, as has been so in the past ?

People vote for Reform because they believe Farage will be a good Prime Minister.
They believe he will attend the House of Commons every week for PMQ and argue their case for them.
He will give up all of his lucrative speech making activities, for example speaking to a far right conference organised by the grandchild of one of Hitler's henchmen, and live only on his Prime Minister allowance.
He will be trusted to defend us against Russian influence, even although he has frequently stated that Putin is the leader he most admires.
Yes, some people will believe he will put their needs first, and will listen to them.

I think the current support for Reform UK is more an anti-establishment stance than actual support for Nigel Farage.

I also think having listened to many interviews of people who attended the march on Saturday that the same applies to a good percentage of the attendees.

Galaxy

Not reform doodledog.
Many of the things I associate with the far right are control of speech, arresting people for speech, flying a swastika, harassment of Jewish people etc and they are being carried out by the other 'side'. So it is quite complex.
I absolutely agree that the far right are out there which is why people using it for anyone they disagree with is so dangerous.

The swastika was a symbol, a flag to show allegiance to an ideology. What was on it is neither here nor there - it's a signifier. It could just as easily have been a kitten or a St George cross if those symbols had been recognised as signs of allegiance to the party.

Is beating people up different from arresting them? Both are deterrents from speaking freely or openly opposing, and arrests can only be ordered by those in power, so not doing so when not in power doesn't mean much, really. Obviously those tactics are not exclusive to the far right - IMO there is not much to choose between extremists when it comes to tactics.

I don't see people using the term 'far right' against 'anyone they disagree with'. I see people using it against those with a clearly racist agenda (bear with me) who use violence and intimidation to further their anti-immigration, homophobic and misogynist agenda, and piggyback on genuine concerns to do so.

That does not mean that everyone on protest marches has that agenda, or that they are racist or 'far right'. It means that IMO those behind the recent unrest are using other concerns to galvanise support for an agenda that is not usually stated by those at the head. They leave that to those who can be written off as aberrant thugs. But in power it would include media control (which now comprises online platforms), slashing of taxes and government spending, leaving the population to fend for themselves, anti-immigrant legislation and behaviour, reverence for 'British culture' (or the parts of that that suit their purpose), all of which do fit a far right viewpoint, particularly if they are enforced through fear and violence, such as we are currently witnessing.

I also think that there is not a lot of clear blue sky between telling people who are trying to debate this subject that we are basically too dim to see what is really going on and telling Brexiteers or Yaxley-Lennon supporters that they are stupid. I completely agree that a lot of this has come about because of a refusal to listen to people, and have been saying this for years too. I have also been saying for years that pushing people into groups (Boomers, 'snowflakes' 'the wealthy', 'benefit scroungers', etc) is sinister and intended to make us all easier to control. That is another far right tactic.

There is a huge difference between being a fascist or Nazi on one hand and wanting Britishness to mean something more than just having a passport or visa on the other - of course there is - and there is nothing remotely shameful about wanting to maintain traditional British values. But those values are tolerance, fairness and decency, not hatred, violence and disorder.

GrannyGravy13

I think the current support for Reform UK is more an anti-establishment stance than actual support for Nigel Farage.

I also think having listened to many interviews of people who attended the march on Saturday that the same applies to a good percentage of the attendees.

I agree.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but much depends on how the people interviewed were selected.