Islamophobia

fancythat

Ww2 - you like to stir.
As you agreed on another thread.

I doubt I will participate much in this discussion as it is another stir thread.

My two points for now are, please say what you personally mean by your own title of Islamophobia.

And also what you personally mean by the term racist.

Those two words mean different things to different people.

What do you personally, mean by them?

That is the Leader of a Sunday paper 😄😄😄.

It is an opinion with which I and I have no doubt millions of others agree.

I think it is a timely warning of what might befall this country if we allow people like Robinson and his unpleasant racist cohorts a foothold.

It isn’t my title - it is the observer’s.

If you have to have the term racist explained to you then you are a lost cause.

Now that everyone who took part in the march will know about the racist overtones, and Elon Musk's actionable broadcast, and have seen the videos of the violence by some, the proof of the pudding will be if they are happy to join in another such march.
Is another one planned?

I doubt very much that those at the end or on the peripheries of the march could hear the speeches.

I think that the chants of Allah, Allah who the f**k is Allah by a small section of the crowd was disgusting.

Not sure if this would be classed as hate or blasphemy though?

By all means arrest any wrong doers, but saying all were anti-Islam is simply erroneous , not all irregular asylum seekers are Muslims or people of colour…

Whitewavemark2

fancythat

Ww2 - you like to stir.
As you agreed on another thread.

I doubt I will participate much in this discussion as it is another stir thread.

My two points for now are, please say what you personally mean by your own title of Islamophobia.

And also what you personally mean by the term racist.

Those two words mean different things to different people.

What do you personally, mean by them?

That is the Leader of a Sunday paper 😄😄😄.

It is an opinion with which I and I have no doubt millions of others agree.

I think it is a timely warning of what might befall this country if we allow people like Robinson and his unpleasant racist cohorts a foothold.

It isn’t my title - it is the observer’s.

If you have to have the term racist explained to you then you are a lost cause.

You didnt actually choose to answer the questions.

Very interesting.

Yes, GG13, they were simply going to central London for a long, boring walk, having a 'family day out'. But now they know, about the racial element, so, will they join in again?
We'll have to wait and see,

You will therefore be more than aware that most people are not not loving of mus lim people or those of other races and religions,

You will therefore be more than aware that people can and should and do love people, but not love what they do.

As it is said in the Bible, hate the sin, love the sinner.

So it is all, generally, far from the total hate situation that you and others would like many people to believe.

GrannyGravy13

I doubt very much that those at the end or on the peripheries of the march could hear the speeches.

I think that the chants of Allah, Allah who the f**k is Allah by a small section of the crowd was disgusting.

Not sure if this would be classed as hate or blasphemy though?

By all means arrest any wrong doers, but saying all were anti-Islam is simply erroneous , not all irregular asylum seekers are Muslims or people of colour…

Most asylum seekers are Muslim though because of the terrible state of many Muslim countries, in no small part down to western meddling in the ME and Afghanistan etc.

'racist' has lots of meanings? Every days' a learning day on GN.
Cambridge Dictionary gives
'someone who believes their race makes them better than people of other races and who does or says harmful things as a result.'

I realise that the Bible one is a quote, fancythat.
Are the other statements also quotes?

One thing some people don’t realise but should know, many Muslims don’t live in communities and even those who do are experiencing a younger generation moving away as younger generations do. The majority are integrated within society holding down responsible jobs/carving out careers, paying their taxes, buying a house, and washing their cars on a Sunday. And of course they share the same values.
Thing is I shouldn’t need to say any of this.

Maremia

'racist' has lots of meanings? Every days' a learning day on GN.
Cambridge Dictionary gives
'someone who believes their race makes them better than people of other races and who does or says harmful things as a result.'

You will have noticed that Ww2 chose not to give hers.
Along with her meaning of the word Islamophobia.

Maremia

I realise that the Bible one is a quote, fancythat.
Are the other statements also quotes?

They are not quotes.

Most people will be aware that the Bible tells people to love others.
Such as "Love your enemy..". Give him water to drink something something[I can find the exact Bible verses if you would like].
"love you neighbour" etc.

Would be very interested to know your own definition of 'racist'.

Might be from Saint Matthew, 'I was thirsty and you gave me to drink'.

TerriBull's post is interesting.

Whitewavemark2

Extracts from the The Observer Leader with which I entirely agree.

“Last weekend about 110000 people gathered in Whitehall to listen to Tommy Robinson and others spew hatred towards Muslims.

Their claims were baseless and their language abhorrent.

It was also actionable.

If the same rhetoric had been used about people who are black or Jewish there would have been arrests.

Whenever a community is dehumanised by racists it is dehumanised in the same way, with sweeping accusations of violence and menace with no regard for truth or the basic tenet of a just society that no one should be persecuted on the basis of their religion or race.

……………………
The Unite the Kingdom demonstration was a national disgrace.

Everyone who took part, even if simply by showing up and listening, was a bystander to hate; not free speech.

They are helping to spread fear amongst fellow citizens who happen to be Muslim.

Not seeing it that way is no excuse”

You only have to replace the word Muslim to Jewish to understand just how dangerous the rhetoric was.

This should never be allowed to happen again.

You mean there is no excuse for those who dont see it your way.

Just as well we seem to have put a stop to it though. If not, I think it would be reported all over the MSM.

Whitewavemark2

eazybee

Anyone turning up at any protest March will of course support what the March stands for.
They were bystanders to hate. They listened to the rhetoric - how many showed disagreement to the racist rhetoric?

A dangerously stupid statement. People can stand and listen and form their own opinions, and if they don't approve generally leave. Showing disagreement to the racist rhetoric in an already febrile situation would result in altercation, just what the organisers hope for.

No that is such a wrong assumption.

If I turned up at a rally and the speeches were clearly racist then I would leave immediately. There was no need to voice your opposition.

I was not aware of mass departures when the speeches began.

Trying to find racism seems to occupy 99% of your thoughts!

From what I could see there was plenty of black & brown faces in that march.
Haven’t we have to put up with those Palestinians marches- from the ‘river to sea’ to me, says ‘flatten Israel’.
They have been able to fly their flags since that 7th September horrific, atrocity.

Maremia

Would be very interested to know your own definition of 'racist'.

I dont know.
Hence me asking Ww2.
And the term Islamophobia.

It means quite different things to different people.

Our (newish) neighbours are Muslim. When our previous neighbour died, we were a bit worried about who we would get (noise) etc as we had lived happily next door to her for 40 years.

A Muslim family bought the house - mum, dad and a little girl now 6. The lady wears traditional dress but no face covering. They are fantastic neighbours. They are as quiet as church mice. The man has helped my husband with fencing etc. When my DH was blue lighted to hospital last year, the lady and little girl appeared at the door with chocolates and a card. They give us sweets at Eid and the odd curry. One of the first things they said to us was 'You won't move will you?' which I found sad. We couldn't wish for better neighbours.

I would imagine the black and brown faces on the march were not Muslim and certainly not the majority.

GG13 said:

I doubt very much that those at the end or on the peripheries of the march could hear the speeches.

An observation that I was going to make, but she got there first.

The march was billed as Unite the UK but such a very vague phrase is problematic. Unity implies agreement about something so what was it that the UK was meant to be united about? How does waving national flags (interestingly, of other nations, as well as of the UK nations) unite UK citizens if they have no idea what they're meant to be united about?

The leaders of the march and the speakers were quite clear that they wanted the UK to be united against some foreign immigrants. For reasons which, knowing the beliefs of the ringleaders, can broadly be described as racist.

It seems to me that some of the marchers protested that they just wanted to unite the UK, while others agreed with the divisive ideas of the ringleaders and speakers. The former group didn't offer us any cause to be united about but I think it a trifle disingenuous to believe that they didn't know the beliefs of the organisers, even if they didn't hear the speeches. Why march if they didn't agree with them?

@Teazel2

“Trying to find racism seems to occupy 99% of your thoughts!”

Which is absolutely splendid. Fighting racism which is a highly pernicious and damaging evil in our society is admirable, no?
Tbh most threads that I see are about the small boats crisis with some suggesting the RNLI stand by whilst people - some of them children - drown. This is the first I have seen about Islamophobia.

MaizieD why march if they didn’t agree with them

I have pondered this, especially after seeing interviews with some who were on the march (people of differing races). In my opinion they went along due to feeling that the main parties are not listening to them or their every day struggles.

If the PM, Ms Bedenoch and Mr. Davy do not start listening to those outside of the London Bubbble we could end up with Reform having more MP’s and therefore more sway in Westminster, something I think would be detrimental to the U.K.