ID cards at long last

Of course they could hand out free mobile phones to those who don’t have one - they have practice in doing that. The workers can pay for it all, as usual.

The more I read, even on this thread, the more my stomach churns. The scenario is chilling. I see that the petition is now over 2 million and a lot of people in my area have signed. I hope our mp takes note

Try reading this from the BBC. It doesn't affect you unless you are working..

#Digital ID will be available to all UK citizens and legal residents, and mandatory in order to work.
However, for students, pensioners or others not seeking work, having a digital ID will be optional.
Officials also stress it will not function like a traditional identity card: people will not be required to carry it in public.
Ministers have ruled out requiring the ID for access to healthcare or welfare payments.
However, the system is being designed to integrate with some government services, to make applications simpler and reduce fraud."

Dont be shortsighted. This is a creeping authoritarianism by the back door. The petition against digital ID has now reached over 2million.

Mamie

Try reading this from the BBC. It doesn't affect you unless you are working..

#Digital ID will be available to all UK citizens and legal residents, and mandatory in order to work.
However, for students, pensioners or others not seeking work, having a digital ID will be optional.
Officials also stress it will not function like a traditional identity card: people will not be required to carry it in public.
Ministers have ruled out requiring the ID for access to healthcare or welfare payments.
However, the system is being designed to integrate with some government services, to make applications simpler and reduce fraud."

Absolutely. Over 100 countries in the world already have ID cards, I think Gransnet has lost its marbles. If Big Brother was really after you, don’t people realise it already has the information needed?

So far on this thread those who disagree have been called tin hatters, criminals and now mad.
I can't imagine why people won't embrace such gentle authoritarianism.
Most of my objections are around the issues that for me it is a solution to a non existent problem, and also that politically they have just made a mistake that anyone could have warned them about.

It would also be interesting to know how many of the people signing the petition are in the UK.
You just tick the box that says " I am a UK citizen".
I suspect overseas interference is highly likely.

nanna8

Of course they could hand out free mobile phones to those who don’t have one - they have practice in doing that. The workers can pay for it all, as usual.

How is it working in Australia? You have had it for almost a year now, haven't you?
I found this interesting.
www.digitalidsystem.gov.au/

If Big Brother was really after you, don’t people realise it already has the information needed?
Exactly this. We're halfway down the line to it already.

I also think more education about the use of technology, especially smart phones, might show some people what they are missing out on.

Surely, it's a benefit to be linked in to all government services? People are always meaning how disjointed everything is. I'm all for ease and speed in any form of "paperwork".

*moaning not meaning

petra

If I thought for a nano second it would achieve something I’d be ok with it. But it’s not going to, is it🤷‍♀️
Then there’s the obscene amount of money. 🤬

The obscene waste of money - when our economy is being absolutely clobbered anyway - is indeed one of the arguments against it.

Not sure whether we're going to land up saved money or clobbered for even more money after "THAT meeting" America has called for next week - ie the one where they're calling back all their top military personnel (hundreds of them) for a Big Meeting in America next week and, trying to figure out the reason why = looks like it might be one telling them "America no longer runs the world - we won't be getting into other peoples wars or starting them any longer (eg Ukraine)" and the subtext being "You all in other countries will cover your own defence costs from here on in....NATO is effectively shutting up shop".

I think that's the most likely tale of what that meeting is about - and that could (probably would?) put up our defence costs a LOT.

So yep....I expect we are about to be handed one BIG bill anyway.....

escaped

^If Big Brother was really after you, don’t people realise it already has the information needed?^
Exactly this. We're halfway down the line to it already.

I also think more education about the use of technology, especially smart phones, might show some people what they are missing out on.

Surely, it's a benefit to be linked in to all government services? People are always meaning how disjointed everything is. I'm all for ease and speed in any form of "paperwork".

Exactly and if people choose not to understand technology, they are infinitely more vulnerable to its abuses.

Robin, why are those amongst us who think ID cards a good idea, short sighted. If you are above board
and here legally you have nothing authorities don't know about you anyway. That's what makes me wonder about those opposing the proposed ID cards, what is is they think they have about themselves that might be exposed to their detriment. If you were arrested and investigated, they would find out who your dentist was,if they wanted to. Keep within the law very unlikely anyone would bother unless you write a tell it all in a book like a few opposers, it doesn't make sense,

These figures from the Australian Government are interesting.
"The Government estimates that economy-wide compliance costs for Digital ID will be almost $1.5m annually, delivering estimated savings in the order of $3.3bn."

"X marks the spot" and congratulations to the poster who said this has Tony Blair's hoofprints all over it....you were right.

Just gone for a read of the online "Daily Mail" and there's an article there "Is the tech giant who gave Blair £257m in line for huge ID card contract?".

Yes - his hoofprints are all over it. Thankfully the article isn't behind a paywall - so can be read.

Galaxy

So far on this thread those who disagree have been called tin hatters, criminals and now mad.
I can't imagine why people won't embrace such gentle authoritarianism.
Most of my objections are around the issues that for me it is a solution to a non existent problem, and also that politically they have just made a mistake that anyone could have warned them about.

As indeed have those who agree been called equivalent, you forgot to mention that?

Galaxy

So far on this thread those who disagree have been called tin hatters, criminals and now mad.
I can't imagine why people won't embrace such gentle authoritarianism.
Most of my objections are around the issues that for me it is a solution to a non existent problem, and also that politically they have just made a mistake that anyone could have warned them about.

I agree, the intolerance towards anyone who isn't fully immersed in the group think of "we must have ID cards" is more or less deemed as some sort of subversive. I think Covid illustrated the over -reach that can come down the line as far as state control is concerned. Governments of many persuasions are like ice bergs, what you see is not always indicative of the elusiveness and potential damage and lack of transparency that lies beneath the surface. I take nothing at face value, look at the lies and obfuscation that we've been fed over the years by successive governments, some real porkies that took us into an illegal war on the basis of "weapons of mass destruction"

TerriBull

Galaxy

So far on this thread those who disagree have been called tin hatters, criminals and now mad.
I can't imagine why people won't embrace such gentle authoritarianism.
Most of my objections are around the issues that for me it is a solution to a non existent problem, and also that politically they have just made a mistake that anyone could have warned them about.

I agree, the intolerance towards anyone who isn't fully immersed in the group think of "we must have ID cards" is more or less deemed as some sort of subversive. I think Covid illustrated the over -reach that can come down the line as far as state control is concerned. Governments of many persuasions are like ice bergs, what you see is not always indicative of the elusiveness and potential damage and lack of transparency that lies beneath the surface. I take nothing at face value, look at the lies and obfuscation that we've been fed over the years by successive governments, some real porkies that took us into an illegal war on the basis of "weapons of mass destruction"

Oh yes the "dodgy dossier" - I remember that one - and Blair's hoofprints all over that one too. I still shake my head wondering how on earth a government in a democracy managed to ignore over 1 million people marching against the war in Iraq. Yep...I remember too how they tried to subvert that march to start with - as we were told that (for some strange reason) the mobile phone network in central London (ie the demonstration) wouldnt be working that day. Cue for me thinking "Oh really?!!!! Can't see businesses there accepting they couldnt use their mobile phones that day - whatever they are told is the "reason" for that. They're lying to put us off". It was nerve-wracking wondering whether we'd all be able to phone through to the drivers of our coaches to find out just where they were to drive us all back again (as there was so many coaches the drivers had all had to take pot luck as to where they would be able to park up). My own mobile phone (as steward of one of our coaches) was absolutely buzzing all day - as I phoned the coach driver and everyone phoned me to see what he'd said about where he'd parked-up.

Basically I personally feel like a lot of the problems we have now trace back to either Blair's time in government or stuff he's been up to since then....

This is being rushed through, in a supposed answer to small boat crossings

How is it going to stop the boats ?

Are people aware of GOV.UK One Login? I admit I wasn't until a few minutes ago. Apparently it's replacing Government Gateway, with which I was familiar.
www.gov.uk/using-your-gov-uk-one-login

Government Gateway links all sorts of government services (not NHS) and saves time when people apply for a variety of services, including pensions, paying tax, claiming benefits. The key to it all seems to be a person's NI number, which I believe everybody is given when they first start working.

I know no more than anybody else about the new digital ID, but it seems to me likely that GOV.UK One Login will become available as an app rather than needing a computer login. If that's the case, I really don't see a problem. The government "big brother" already has the information, which can be accessed with a couple of clicks. For the user, it will be similar to Government Gateway, but will be more portable, so could be used as ID for voting, collecting parcels from the post office without having to carry additional ID around.

I have very conflicting views on Blair, some excellent things were done during his government, but I think he may have been responsible for starting changes to the labour party that haven't in my view worked out so well in the long term.

Have just seen they're in the process of doing this for children - and I'd not heard a peep about that!

Apparently it's being introduced for children via the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill. It won't get deleted once they reach 18 and will follow them through their lives functioning this way.

growstuff

TerriBull

Then there's this scenario, we have a rental flat, which we are now in the process of selling. The tenants we have had for the past three years are foreign nationals, the letting agents carried out their status checks for us, all in order. They have now moved out. We have just had the flat painted and went to check on that on completion of the work, whilst we were leaving the flat we were beckoned over by the occupier in the flat downstairs from us. "Did you know?" said he "that there were more than the two people living upstairs, maybe another 3 or 4. Of course we didn't but would account for the state they left the property in, given it's 2 bedrooms and therefore not suitable for say half a dozen, it would also account for the fact that we had found some post addressed to people other than the tenants and they didn't resonate with us as any previous tenants in the 12 years we've owned it. When we spoke about this matter to the letting agents, they said, "oh yes this is not altogether uncommon" They only do annual checks on their lettings. So in that situation, as a landlord, how could there be a verification of ID when there will almost certainly be people who won't be on the tenancy agreements.

Didn't the extra tenants have beds? Quite honestly, it sounds as though the letting agent didn't do a very good job.

I live in a rented house and have an inspection every six months. I'm certain the inspector would notice if I had extra tenants living here. She even commented that I had an extra electric toothbrush plugged in (because my partner often stays here).

Kind of off topic, but I just thought I'd paint a clearer picture. Yes the letting agents were useless, they really didn't earn the 11 and a half per cent deducted. Annual inspections only. Initially when they sent the photos through on the first couple, the flat appeared to be sparsely furnished. Later on it was crammed to the gunnels. We had to visit a year or so ago, apropos of some work that was necessary and had been carried out. The lead tenant wasn't very happy about that and kept putting us off, we respected their privacy and this was the first visit in a couple of years, but no we didn't see any extra beds, but then again we weren't looking as those suspicions had never been roused with us. Similarly, we needed to have a new pump fitted in the shower room, and given this was something for their benefit they mucked the plumber around, as to letting him gain access. The managing agent also advised that the block would need new internal fire doors and again someone had to be there to let them inspect the internal front door, this was also difficult to fix up because the lead tenant went from amenable and one time to being fairly uncooperative and cagey. Another thing I remember, the management company sent out a communication that a neighbouring flat had complained about our tenants showering at all hours of the day and night. Yeah still I didn't twig!

All in all, the lease was signed on the basis of a two tenant occupation, and they therefore were in breach of contract. We certainly would not have agreed to have multiple occupants "hot bedding" or the like, although I understand why that's a thing in this current climate of dire shortage of lettings, that doesn't mean landlords have to agree to having their property let on an overcrowded basis, but who knows what will come down the line.

GrannyGravy13

This is being rushed through, in a supposed answer to small boat crossings

How is it going to stop the boats ?

I don't think the small boats is the only reason. It's been on the cards (sorry about the pun) for some time.

I think the small boats issue is being touted to support introduction because so many people are claiming one of the pull factors of the UK for asylum seekers is that it's so easy for them to work in a black economy (not sure that's true but ...).

TerriBull I'd definitely find a new agent. I've been a tenant in the same property for 11 years and I don't think the landlord can believe his luck.

The landlord only lives a couple of miles away and i know him reasonably well. I asked him why he uses an agent (at 15%) and he just says it makes his life easier - he's 85 and can't be bothered getting quotes or arranging gas checks, etc.

He's actually changed agents twice while I've been here because he wants an agent who is good for him and his tenant. He's always asking me whether I'm happy with the service they offer.

It definitely sounds as though the tenant is in breach of contract, although I have no idea how easy it would be to enforce the contract and evict of necessary.