What is the gulf between what the current party leaders believe themelves to be and the reality in your view?

Great assessment Lemonjam

nanna8

I think Badenoch is the best of the bunch and I wish we had someone like her here. I won’t say what I think of Starmer because it would break obscenity rules.

I feel the same way.

As well as going Ape Shit at the same time.

🦍🦧💣

LemonJam

My thoughts on 4 leaders who gain most media coverage, in no particular order:

1) Badenoch- back story privileged, largely private school educated, engineer. Sees herself as bold, strong and good planner. Reality- often comes across as arrogant, argumentative, poor listener, not a natural networker. Plans missing until recently. Uninspiring.

2) Starmer- back story working class, state educated, Human Rights lawyer. Sees himself- knows what he stands for, values driven, incisive, decisive, determined, has a plan. Reality- cautious, often changes his mind, others don't always feel they know what he stands for, ruthless, ambitious, determined, makes unforced errors, politically naive, only recently starting to make his values clearer to the electorate. Doesn't see it as his primary role to inspire, rather he seeks to govern responsibly.

3 Ed Davey- I don't really know much about his back story apart from he has a disabled child. Sees himself as values driven, media savvy and wants attention for Liberal Party, good at building presence in local communities. Reality- embarrassing Dad stunts in media, values driven, good at building presence in local communities. Jury swings as to level of inspiration.

4) Nigel Farage- back story privileged, privately educated, finance in the city. Sees himself as a man of the people yet also casts himself as an outsider, a risk taker, a truth teller, anti woke, the change agent with all the answers to current economic and cultural malaise ( as he sees it ). Reality Media savvy/master class level, scapegoat expert, agitator, maverick, career opportunist, excellent networker, ruthless, ambitious, seeks personal financial gain alongside public service, truth bender, opportunistic, thin skinned ( he can dish it out but not take it in return) contrarian. Inspires constant attention- his primary goal.

I quite agree about Starmer, he's a decent chap who is lousy in front of a camera.

Badenock could start a fight in an empty room.

I like Ed Davey and the lib dems, but I wish they'd say more about. their policies rather than do silly stunts

M0nica

The problem isn't the leaders, it is the parties. Kemi Badenoch is only as good as is possible given the total disarray of the Conservative party, who seem to be unwilling to face up to reality of their total lack of policies or a coherent idea of what the party is meant to be. Sacking Badenoch will only make things worse, not better.

Starmer is the perfect example of the Peter Principle, that you keep promoting an able person until they reach, and then go past the point where they become incompetent. He was a very competent Director of Public Prosecutions. He is a grossly incompetent Prime Minister, and no one will get rid of him.

Good post.

The problem isn't the leaders, it is the parties. Kemi Badenoch is only as good as is possible given the total disarray of the Conservative party, who seem to be unwilling to face up to reality of their total lack of policies or a coherent idea of what the party is meant to be. Sacking Badenoch will only make things worse, not better.

Starmer is the perfect example of the Peter Principle, that you keep promoting an able person until they reach, and then go past the point where they become incompetent. He was a very competent Director of Public Prosecutions. He is a grossly incompetent Prime Minister, and no one will get rid of him.

That was to rowyn

I won't 🤯 honest!!

But I will go and have a cup of calming camomile tea!

Well done LemonJam, I think you’ve summed up the zeitgeist.

Heaven preserve me from what is about to descend on me

BRING BACK BORIS

Heaven preserve me for what is about to descend on me..

. BRING BACK BORIS

Yes, how do we know who they think they are? By the parts/versions of their back stories that they select to reveal?Does Farage ever talk about his dealings with Russia, apart from lying about never having met the Russian ambassador?

Hi Chaitriona- I'm really no! I'm just fascinated by what our political leaders, of all parties, tell us about themselves, what they're going to do then what happens next..... Take care 😊

LemonJam

My thoughts on 4 leaders who gain most media coverage, in no particular order:

1) Badenoch- back story privileged, largely private school educated, engineer. Sees herself as bold, strong and good planner. Reality- often comes across as arrogant, argumentative, poor listener, not a natural networker. Plans missing until recently. Uninspiring.

2) Starmer- back story working class, state educated, Human Rights lawyer. Sees himself- knows what he stands for, values driven, incisive, decisive, determined, has a plan. Reality- cautious, often changes his mind, others don't always feel they know what he stands for, ruthless, ambitious, determined, makes unforced errors, politically naive, only recently starting to make his values clearer to the electorate. Doesn't see it as his primary role to inspire, rather he seeks to govern responsibly.

3 Ed Davey- I don't really know much about his back story apart from he has a disabled child. Sees himself as values driven, media savvy and wants attention for Liberal Party, good at building presence in local communities. Reality- embarrassing Dad stunts in media, values driven, good at building presence in local communities. Jury swings as to level of inspiration.

4) Nigel Farage- back story privileged, privately educated, finance in the city. Sees himself as a man of the people yet also casts himself as an outsider, a risk taker, a truth teller, anti woke, the change agent with all the answers to current economic and cultural malaise ( as he sees it ). Reality Media savvy/master class level, scapegoat expert, agitator, maverick, career opportunist, excellent networker, ruthless, ambitious, seeks personal financial gain alongside public service, truth bender, opportunistic, thin skinned ( he can dish it out but not take it in return) contrarian. Inspires constant attention- his primary goal.

What an excellent post.
You are a clever woman.

sunami 😂 I’m often misunderstood …. !

Galaxy

It's an interesting thought about expectations on one person but I suppose that is what the cabinet is for.

Yes, that's what I was getting at. A good manager picks her/his team to make sure that all the necessary bases are covered. Even then, a lot comes down to how well the management team is managed, IYSWIM. That's why I tried to fit the leaders into how I think they would have fitted into workplace teams I have known. Obviously there was a lot of guesswork, but I found it interesting, even if no-one else did

It's an interesting thought about expectations on one person but I suppose that is what the cabinet is for.

Allira

^Allira I do realise that a PM is supposed to do all the things I mentioned grin. I was simply offering the opinion that it is a lot to expect anyone (of any party) to do well.^

It's a tough job but he did volunteer!

Yes, they all do. I didn't single out Starmer at all.

Mollygo

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Erm sunami I actually said “ It's the first time they haven't inherited a good economy.”

Glad you mentioned that FGT2.
I thought I’d misread your post when sunami said that.

Sorreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! :-(

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Erm sunami I actually said “ It's the first time they haven't inherited a good economy.”

Glad you mentioned that FGT2.
I thought I’d misread your post when sunami said that.

I hope Polanski doesn't cut through, I view him as a fairly charismatic con man, so I suspect he might. The stories around his behaviour whilst a hypnotherapist ring all sorts of alarm bells.

LemonJam

My thoughts on 4 leaders who gain most media coverage, in no particular order:

1) Badenoch- back story privileged, largely private school educated, engineer. Sees herself as bold, strong and good planner. Reality- often comes across as arrogant, argumentative, poor listener, not a natural networker. Plans missing until recently. Uninspiring.

2) Starmer- back story working class, state educated, Human Rights lawyer. Sees himself- knows what he stands for, values driven, incisive, decisive, determined, has a plan. Reality- cautious, often changes his mind, others don't always feel they know what he stands for, ruthless, ambitious, determined, makes unforced errors, politically naive, only recently starting to make his values clearer to the electorate. Doesn't see it as his primary role to inspire, rather he seeks to govern responsibly.

3 Ed Davey- I don't really know much about his back story apart from he has a disabled child. Sees himself as values driven, media savvy and wants attention for Liberal Party, good at building presence in local communities. Reality- embarrassing Dad stunts in media, values driven, good at building presence in local communities. Jury swings as to level of inspiration.

4) Nigel Farage- back story privileged, privately educated, finance in the city. Sees himself as a man of the people yet also casts himself as an outsider, a risk taker, a truth teller, anti woke, the change agent with all the answers to current economic and cultural malaise ( as he sees it ). Reality Media savvy/master class level, scapegoat expert, agitator, maverick, career opportunist, excellent networker, ruthless, ambitious, seeks personal financial gain alongside public service, truth bender, opportunistic, thin skinned ( he can dish it out but not take it in return) contrarian. Inspires constant attention- his primary goal.

Absolutely brilliant analysis!

Thanks LemonJam

Well, he must have some good points then.

DESCENDING order- sorry 🥱

Allira I do realise that a PM is supposed to do all the things I mentioned grin. I was simply offering the opinion that it is a lot to expect anyone (of any party) to do well.

It's a tough job but he did volunteer!

Allira Sun 05-Oct-25 15:22:08
"LemonJam What is your take on the leader of the Greens who seems to think they stand a good chance at the next election?"

I must admit I haven't yet come to an informed view of how he regularly presents himself or how this compares to his performance as a leader in practice. But since he became leader on 23 September last month, I am noticing his appearance in the media much more that I've noticed Green leaders previously.

I understand at 18 he changed his birth surname, David Paulden, ( his family had adopted the Paulden surname name to evade the risk of antisemitism) to restore his familial name of Polanski, as it was important to him to find pride in his Jewish identity- that speaks to his values at a young age, a good thing.

He was elected Green Party leader last month, on a landslide. He's aims that the Green Party will REPLACE the Labour Party, very ambitious indeed. He is also critical of Farage and fascism.

He's recently released a weekly podcast called " Bold Politics with Zack Polanski" which tells me he is media savvy, and sees himself as bold. No doubt that will be his calling card as he goes forward. I read an article recently where he visited Clacton to speak to and listen to Nigel Farage's constituent residents to understand the reasons that formed their Reform voting views. That tells me he is astute and open to listening.

He could well continue to build momentum and become a real force to be reckoned with for the other 4 parties.

Doodledog Sun 05-Oct-25 14:54:36
"I think that asking one person to lead a party of elected representatives (representing very different constituencies) as well as steer a country (and in the UK a union of four countries) is a huge ask......"

I absolutely agree Doodlebug. Yet sadly identity politics is becoming increasingly the case globally, hence why this thread was of interest to me. It shouldn't be the case of course as the reality is it takes a government of representatives to deliver any party's polices. But every party or enterprise needs a leader and figurehead, it is for the electorate to remember they are solely that.

In that context, in ascending order, this would be my observations of which of the current leader's are most COLLEGIATE and COLLABORATIVE, despite their other strengths or failings, in order to command and lead a cohesive and effective government:
1)Polanski
2) Davey
3) Starmer
4) Badenoch ( but only when she sees the necessity to do so).
5) I don't think I've ever really seen any signs of Farage being collegiate and collaborative- but I stand to be corrected....