What is the gulf between what the current party leaders believe themelves to be and the reality in your view?

I think Badenoch is in the wrong place at the wrong time, whoever was leading the Tories at this time was facing an impossible task.

I think Badenoch is the best of the bunch and I wish we had someone like her here. I won’t say what I think of Starmer because it would break obscenity rules.

nanna8

I think Badenoch is the best of the bunch and I wish we had someone like her here. I won’t say what I think of Starmer because it would break obscenity rules.

Do you think Badenoch is what she claims to be? She's not what Conservative voters seem to want.

Galaxy

I think Badenoch is in the wrong place at the wrong time, whoever was leading the Tories at this time was facing an impossible task.

I actually think there's a vacancy for a party to represent the centre right , which some Conservative MPs are (the ones who survived the Johnson purge).

I think she is actually on top of her brief on the subjects she knows and understands but I don't think her knowledge base is wide enough.

I just posted on another thread about the tv interview this morning, it was more of a one sided rant, which made it hard for Laura to get a a question or even a word in.

Galaxy

I think she is actually on top of her brief on the subjects she knows and understands but I don't think her knowledge base is wide enough.

Which subjects do you think she knows and understands?

The Laffer curve, as proved by Gordon Brown. I think it was 2004, that he reached the limits of cigarette taxes, and they fell heavily the following year. So much so, that he never put their taxes up again.

This time round for labour is different. It's the first time they haven't inherited a good economy. This is why things are disastrous so quickly.

Mind you Reeves will improve things next month won’t she with her delayed Budget?

Womens rights/ single sex spaces, she was ahead of the game, even though I blame her government for quite a lot of the mess.

I also quite liked some of the points she made around assisted dying.

I like what Badenoch says[I have by know means heard a lot].
I think she believes in what she says.

I personally cannot get over the hurdle, atm anyway, of thinking, if she were to get into power, she could and would get the things she wants, actually done.

I would like to know what happens when a person gets into power.
Who are they thwarted by?
Civil servants?
Men in suits or whatever they are called.
People who pull purse strings?
Who exactly?

Oh and I forgot lawyers.

Well, in terms of the last government, it was a mixture of ineptitude,lack of conviction, etc.

Latest:
A Tory donor who helped fund Kemi Badenoch’s leadership campaign has defected to Reform UK on the first day of the Conservatives’ annual conference.

I do think I agree with Dominic Cummings ( god help me) we are watching the end of the two main parties.

Kemi Badenoch's best riposte was when she said
'Starmer was a lawyer, not a Leader.'

On digging deeper …. Seriously this is called big news 🥱 So a person who last October donated all of £2,000 towards Badenoch leadership campaign, has now deflected to his best mate ... Nigel Farage ... Laughable stuff! 🤣.

As you were.

My thoughts on 4 leaders who gain most media coverage, in no particular order:

1) Badenoch- back story privileged, largely private school educated, engineer. Sees herself as bold, strong and good planner. Reality- often comes across as arrogant, argumentative, poor listener, not a natural networker. Plans missing until recently. Uninspiring.

2) Starmer- back story working class, state educated, Human Rights lawyer. Sees himself- knows what he stands for, values driven, incisive, decisive, determined, has a plan. Reality- cautious, often changes his mind, others don't always feel they know what he stands for, ruthless, ambitious, determined, makes unforced errors, politically naive, only recently starting to make his values clearer to the electorate. Doesn't see it as his primary role to inspire, rather he seeks to govern responsibly.

3 Ed Davey- I don't really know much about his back story apart from he has a disabled child. Sees himself as values driven, media savvy and wants attention for Liberal Party, good at building presence in local communities. Reality- embarrassing Dad stunts in media, values driven, good at building presence in local communities. Jury swings as to level of inspiration.

4) Nigel Farage- back story privileged, privately educated, finance in the city. Sees himself as a man of the people yet also casts himself as an outsider, a risk taker, a truth teller, anti woke, the change agent with all the answers to current economic and cultural malaise ( as he sees it ). Reality Media savvy/master class level, scapegoat expert, agitator, maverick, career opportunist, excellent networker, ruthless, ambitious, seeks personal financial gain alongside public service, truth bender, opportunistic, thin skinned ( he can dish it out but not take it in return) contrarian. Inspires constant attention- his primary goal.

I think it’s hard for us to really know what Party leaders believe themselves to be isn’t it?
Of all of them I think Starmer does try to be true to his own beliefs and principles which doesn’t of course necessarily make him a great leader.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

The Laffer curve, as proved by Gordon Brown. I think it was 2004, that he reached the limits of cigarette taxes, and they fell heavily the following year. So much so, that he never put their taxes up again.

This time round for labour is different. It's the first time they haven't inherited a good economy. This is why things are disastrous so quickly.

Mind you Reeves will improve things next month won’t she with her delayed Budget?

What makes you think that Labour inherited a good economy? All the indications were that they didn't and not many serious economists would agree with you. It would be interesting to hear how you would defend your claim.

Of all of them I think Starmer does try to be true to his own beliefs and principles which doesn’t of course necessarily make him a great leader.

I think you are right, Oreo

But some leaders in the past have sent us all Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward whilst sitting safely on their gilded seats at least a dozen leagues away.

Galaxy

I also quite liked some of the points she made around assisted dying.

Do you honestly think that those are election-winning issues for the vast majority of the electorate? I'm afraid I don't.

I don't think I've ever heard her say anything even remotely sensible about the economy or foreign affairs. When she was on the London Assembly, she supported cutting police numbers. I think people are more concerned about issues such as those.

Erm sunami I actually said “ It's the first time they haven't inherited a good economy.”

NotSpaghetti

^Of all of them I think Starmer does try to be true to his own beliefs and principles which doesn’t of course necessarily make him a great leader.^

I think you are right, Oreo

But some leaders in the past have sent us all Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward whilst sitting safely on their gilded seats at least a dozen leagues away.

True, and we don’t want another Charge Of The Light Brigade do we ( or under Boris, The Charge Of The Heavy Brigade) but we do need a leader with very clear ideas and some boldness.