Breaking news, midnight - Peace in the Middle East?

Oreo no need to comment on Ireland just accept I understand more than you realised about religious extremism.

AGAA4

Do you think it will be difficult to retrieve the bodies if there are bombs in the rubble?

Yes and it can go on for a long time. Chaos in Plymouth last year when a large unexploded WWII bomb found in the city.

Who can guess how many unexploded bombs are in the ruins.

I have been reading today, and feel very saddened because Israel can never claim the moral high ground now, but doctors are reporting and recording that the majority of the bodies show signs of severe torture.

Many of the living just released report torture.

I suspect that the Hamas hostages will report the same. So we have a terrorist organisation unsurprisingly committing foul acts against their prisoners, and a sovereign state doing the same. That is a tragedy.

No one comes out of this smelling of roses - quite the opposite.

theworriedwell

Oreo no need to comment on Ireland just accept I understand more than you realised about religious extremism.

Am confused here by your posts, I haven’t addressed any comments about religious extremism to you.
I was pointing out generally that it didn’t matter how nice and comfortable life was or could be in Gaza or any other country, extremists ( Muslim extremists) don’t care about that, they are driven by their ideology which wants a Caliphate amongst other things.The extremists in Gaza want all Jews dead.
The two Christian groups in NI often at each other’s throats want different things but are both Christian.Not that we need this on the thread unless you want to start one about Ireland.

The machinery available today is vastly more capable, construction methods faster.
Difficult and dangerous work but certainly safer than war with Israel

theworriedwell

AGAA4

We all have different views on things so live and let live.
So what do you think of the 60 million tons of rubble in Gaza which is composed of rubble , bombs and bodies?

I was born 8 years after the end of WWII and I remember playing on bomb building sites as a child, let's say that's at least 12 years after the war ended. This was in a city in the midlands, a city that was bombed but not flattened like Gaza. These ruins weren't multistorey concrete blocks just little terraced Victorian two up two downs.

What do I think of the ruins in Gaza? I think it will take a long time to clear the rubble.

I'm from a city that got heavily bombed in the 2nd World War - ie Exeter. Exeter copped for it, as I understand it, because it was part of the Baedeker Raids (ie Baedeker was a German that wrote travel books). It was hit heavily precisely because of being an attractive city tourists like.

Cue for a noticeable number of attractive older buildings remained throughout - but one can see exactly where a huge chunk got blasted out of the city centre - because it's 1950s style buildings that are there now (apart from a bit that got replaced again more recently). Despite the fact I make ironic jokes about my own city of "It's ever so old - it's 10 years old....must be about time to replace it again" and so some of it has had re-replacement.

But - yep a major part of the city centre is 1950's style - despite the fact the war ended in 1945. So it took some years obviously before it was rebuilt. I don't know how long it took the Germans to rebuild the bits the British had blasted of their cities - on the one hand they are more efficient than us and, on the other hand, I think their economy was left even more wrecked than ours. So yep....and rebuilding is not an overnight process...even if one hasn't got an aggressive enemy force there chomping at the bit just by you and with its own plans for that bit of Palestine.

As I recall - my birth city of Plymouth - must have also been heavily hit in the 2nd World War - as so much of their city centre is also what I think is 1950s style in design. Again - it took years to rebuild.

Why do you think there have been so many Muslim terror attacks here in the UK and so many other countries?

So many? Really?

Whitewavemark2

I have been reading today, and feel very saddened because Israel can never claim the moral high ground now, but doctors are reporting and recording that the majority of the bodies show signs of severe torture.

Many of the living just released report torture.

I suspect that the Hamas hostages will report the same. So we have a terrorist organisation unsurprisingly committing foul acts against their prisoners, and a sovereign state doing the same. That is a tragedy.

No one comes out of this smelling of roses - quite the opposite.

Appalling situation.

I think Israel's claim of a moral high ground was lost some time ago WW and what is continuing to take place on the West Bank, together with any excuse to once again limit the aid going into Gaza, for me shows that peace simply isn't on Netanyahu's agenda .

Oreo

theworriedwell

Oreo no need to comment on Ireland just accept I understand more than you realised about religious extremism.

Am confused here by your posts, I haven’t addressed any comments about religious extremism to you.
I was pointing out generally that it didn’t matter how nice and comfortable life was or could be in Gaza or any other country, extremists ( Muslim extremists) don’t care about that, they are driven by their ideology which wants a Caliphate amongst other things.The extremists in Gaza want all Jews dead.
The two Christian groups in NI often at each other’s throats want different things but are both Christian.Not that we need this on the thread unless you want to start one about Ireland.

When in a hole, stop digging.

Extremists in Gaza want to obliterate the state of Israel and wipe Jews off the face of the earth. To balance that up, there are Israelis, such as Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, who are on record as saying the same about Palestinians.

Muslim terrorism doesn't just target Jews. In fact, some attacks against Jews are motivated by more traditional antisemitism, not necessarily by Muslims.

If you bothered to try and find out about Muslim thinking, you'd understand it rarely ends up with terrorism. There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world. Most of them are not extremists.

Muslim terrorism doesn't just target Jews

As we know only too well in this country and others around the world.

When in a hole, stop digging.
🤔

StripeyGran

*Why do you think there have been so many Muslim terror attacks here in the UK and so many other countries?*

So many? Really?

Yes.
Research has shown that, around the world:

"Between 1979 and April 2024, there were 66,872 Islamist attacks worldwide. These attacks caused the deaths of at least 249,941 people".

theworriedwell

Oreo no need to comment on Ireland just accept I understand more than you realised about religious extremism.

Catching up here, not looking to be confrontational but I fear we all know more about religious extremism than we ever thought we would. I could go into details but I won’t. I don’t see it as some kind of competition.

One awful result of Isreal-Palestine conflict is our tempers fray in response to the horrors x

Anniebach

If the Israeli army are Netanyahu’s troops it follows the British Army are Starmer’s troops

In fact the Monarch is Head of the Armed Forces, the Prime Minister can make decisions on their use and deployment, usually after discussion with his/her Cabinet.

Oreo have a look at your post at 14.17 where you quote me when you talk about not understanding religious extremism. It is there to see.

Iam64 I'm entitled to respond when I'm told I don't understand religious extremism by someone who doesn't know my background even if they now deny it. It is there at 1417 if it wasn't aimed at my why was I quoted.

Iam64

theworriedwell

Oreo no need to comment on Ireland just accept I understand more than you realised about religious extremism.

Catching up here, not looking to be confrontational but I fear we all know more about religious extremism than we ever thought we would. I could go into details but I won’t. I don’t see it as some kind of competition.

One awful result of Isreal-Palestine conflict is our tempers fray in response to the horrors x

Well said.

Religious extremism of different kinds has been the cause of tensions, attacks, wars since time immemorial.

Sometimes tempers fray when Posters are contradicted.

Sometimes tempers fray. I accept that but I’m not convinced it adds anything constructive

My temper remains unfrayed.
It's not Real Life.

Allira

StripeyGran

Why do you think there have been so many Muslim terror attacks here in the UK and so many other countries?

So many? Really?

Yes.
Research has shown that, around the world:

"Between 1979 and April 2024, there were 66,872 Islamist attacks worldwide. These attacks caused the deaths of at least 249,941 people".

Please could you give a source for that.

Found it!

www.fondapol.org/en/study/islamist-terrorist-attacks-in-the-world-1979-2024/#:~:text=1.,occurred%20in%20Muslim%20countries1.

It's interesting reading.

No, it doesn't provide proof that there have been "so many" Islamist attacks in the UK or any other European country.

"The countries most affected by Islamist terrorism are Afghanistan (17,075 attacks), Somalia (10,768 attacks), Iraq (8,209 attacks), Nigeria (3,950 attacks), Syria (3,421), Pakistan (2,635), Mali (2,289 attacks), Israel (1,748 attacks), Yemen (1,657 attacks), Algeria (1,387 attacks), Egypt (1,367 attacks), Mozambique (1,302 attacks) and Cameroon (1,230 attacks).

In these thirteen countries, 218,734 deaths were caused by Islamist terrorist attacks, representing 87.5% of the total number of deaths worldwide."

The vast majority of Islamist attacks and deaths (86.3%) have occurred in Muslim countries. They can be viewed as civil war, motivated by fundamentalists who think Muslims are straying too far from basic principles and have been influenced too much by the "west".

It's interesting that the top three countries (Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq) are the source of most asylum seekers, who are trying to escape from fundamental Islam.

Yes, there have been many Muslim extremist attacks in the UK, some carried out and some foiled.Also in EU countries.Very easy to look the figures up.Maybe not the numbers as in some other regions but quite enough to come under the umbrella of the word ‘many’.Not just attacks on Jews but on anyone at all as they hate liberal Western values.

Allira

My temper remains unfrayed.
It's not Real Life.

Same here 👍🏻