Maccabi Tel Aviv football club banned

What are you trying to say??

That some posters think football hooliganism is acceptable?

That pro-Palestinian groups might attack football fans and posters think this is acceptable?

What, exactly?

🤔

Oreo

By team I mean the fans of the team.

Maybe that was what was meant earlier by team though it wasn't very clear.

I'd be very surprised if anyone thinks bad behaviour related to football is acceptable any time, any where.

Millwall fans , or a proportion of them used to be frightening.
Maybe they’re better now, but football is such a tribal thing.
There are matches played in some countries where there are killings after the match ends and mass brutal brawls.
Google it.

No, putting aside, temporarily, the issue of pro Palestine expected agro,
Just focusing on the behaviour as seen in the past of the Maccabe fans who chanted racist songs, attacked bystanders in Amsterdam, do GNs see anything in the behaviour of those fans that might explain concern.
Or is it just a case of, well it's just a few lively fans,
that's what fans do?

Are you therefore Oreo saying that what those Particular fans did in Amsterdam is acceptable?
Only answer if you wish.

Just trying to gauge what some GNs feel is acceptable behaviour.

I don’t understand why people can’t take the politics away from it all and just look at what happened in Amsterdam and decide that we can’t take the risk of it happening here if it can be avoided.

Maremia

Are you therefore Oreo saying that what those Particular fans did in Amsterdam is acceptable?
Only answer if you wish.

But you don't know if those particular fans will be coming here if they were allowed.

Tarring all the fans with the behaviour of a few is like blaming every Jewish person for what the Israeli Government is doing is it not?

This from Wikipedia
“The Maccabi Tel Aviv fan base is known to include far-right ultra groups[34][35] that have been involved in racist incidents in Israel in the past, including directing racist abuse at Arab and black players on their own team.[6][36][37] In March, prior to a game against Olympiacos F.C. in Athens, a man carrying a Palestinian flag was taken to hospital after an altercation with a group of Maccabi fans.[5][36][38] Other European matches played by Maccabi Tel Aviv this season had passed without violence,[36] although a Men's National League game between Belgium and Israel, on 6 September 2024, had to be played behind closed doors in Hungary, after the Royal Belgian Football Association had declined to host the match due to security concerns”.

The Maccabi Tel Aviv fan base

What about the team, as some posters are claiming?

My understanding of the word team is the 11 players who are selected for the game. We see the line up of the team announced just before the match

There may be other members of the squad who sit on the bench waiting to be called up as substitutes.

Then there are other club members such as the manager, the coaches, and medical and administrative staff.

Then there are supporters or fans.

I've never heard the terms being interchangeable. My DGS's family are not part of the team when they go to support the team in which he plays, if that makes sense.

Surprising that it needed explaining, escaped, but yes, it did.

My DS was a member of a team, I was a supporter (if not necessarily a fan of football).

Look what happened in Amsterdam! They should be banned from leaving their country we don't want them we've got enough already.

Before anyone misinterprets, by saying we have enough, it's trouble makers, we dont need Maccabi.

I suppose the alternative would be to allow the fans in but warn them that as soon as they start chanting “death to all Arabs” or tearing down any Palestinian flags etc, that they would be arrested before any trouble could start.

They would then be sent packing back to Israel, where they can shout their unpleasant messages to their hearts content.

This forum is full of contradictions about the displaying of flags.

I have only ever been to one football match but don’t remember flag waving as part of audience participation. Don’t large flags obscure the view of the pitch? Wouldn’t it be better to wave flags somewhere else?

Yes, a compromise of sorts Whitewavemark2.
Though I fear it's becoming such a difficult issue to resolve worldwide.

Football itself is ploughing millions into trying to sort it. At every level much consideration and training is given as top how to stamp out trouble, and the players themselves often make appeals. Many a club's ethos emphasises the complexity of these issues. I don't have the answer, but somehow it has to stop.

I am quite glad that we have established that those waving flags are good and those removing them are bad. Handy for future discussions.

Whitewavemark2

I suppose the alternative would be to allow the fans in but warn them that as soon as they start chanting “death to all Arabs” or tearing down any Palestinian flags etc, that they would be arrested before any trouble could start.

They would then be sent packing back to Israel, where they can shout their unpleasant messages to their hearts content.

The trouble with that is that it wouldn't be much of a punishment and the damage would already have been done, possibly to local infrastructure. Ideally, fans who caused trouble would be arrested and charged in the UK, but that would mean keeping them in custody and all the expenses.

In 2023, Legia Warsaw was fined 100,000 Euros by UEFA for the violence at an away match against Aston Villa. Aston Villa is still seeking compensation for damage caused to the ground.

West Midlands Police don't feel they have the resources to control the match (before and after), if it turns out like the match against Ajax. If the government is so keen for Maccabi fans to be there, it needs to provide extra resources, but I have no idea who would pay.

In order to prevent German fans from Eintracht Frankfurt travelling to Naples, the Schengen Agreement has even been suspended. So people will be checked at the borders between Germany and Italy.

Galaxy

I am quite glad that we have established that those waving flags are good and those removing them are bad. Handy for future discussions.

Pardon?

escaped

Yes, a compromise of sorts Whitewavemark2.
Though I fear it's becoming such a difficult issue to resolve worldwide.

Football itself is ploughing millions into trying to sort it. At every level much consideration and training is given as top how to stamp out trouble, and the players themselves often make appeals. Many a club's ethos emphasises the complexity of these issues. I don't have the answer, but somehow it has to stop.

The key is the clubs themselves, who do have some limited control over their own fans. For example, Chelsea banned for life a fan who attacked a black man on the Paris underground.

It would appear that Maccabi Tel Aviv isn't too bothered about their fans. Apparently, racist anti-Arab comments are quite comment in Israel, where about 20% of the population is Arab and there are some good Arab players, who suffer name-calling every time they play. There are a couple of Arab players in the Israeli national team who suffer appalling abuse. There are also some non-Arab Muslims in other Israeli teams. It's commonplace for Maccabi fans to target them.

Until the Maccabi board cleans up its own act, the fans deserve what they get.

The problem now is that the banning of Maccabi has been well publicised. This will inevitably draw those people who will be there solely to cause trouble. Not all will give a toss about Gaza and Israel but are rabble-rousers and enjoy conflict.

This could have been handled better and dealt with much more low key.
Starmer and others making public declarations has made this much more difficult to handle.

growstuff

Whitewavemark2

I suppose the alternative would be to allow the fans in but warn them that as soon as they start chanting “death to all Arabs” or tearing down any Palestinian flags etc, that they would be arrested before any trouble could start.

They would then be sent packing back to Israel, where they can shout their unpleasant messages to their hearts content.

The trouble with that is that it wouldn't be much of a punishment and the damage would already have been done, possibly to local infrastructure. Ideally, fans who caused trouble would be arrested and charged in the UK, but that would mean keeping them in custody and all the expenses.

In 2023, Legia Warsaw was fined 100,000 Euros by UEFA for the violence at an away match against Aston Villa. Aston Villa is still seeking compensation for damage caused to the ground.

West Midlands Police don't feel they have the resources to control the match (before and after), if it turns out like the match against Ajax. If the government is so keen for Maccabi fans to be there, it needs to provide extra resources, but I have no idea who would pay.

In order to prevent German fans from Eintracht Frankfurt travelling to Naples, the Schengen Agreement has even been suspended. So people will be checked at the borders between Germany and Italy.

Yes I do agree really with your post.

Just casting around for a compromise - it ain’t going to work is it?

I'm guessing each club has its own mentality, which in a way, can be its own special strength, but also its own downfall. That is particularly evident across different nations, and hard for anyone to change.
The compromise is that behaviour somehow needs to adapt.