Breaking Peace in the Middle East? Continued thread.

Yep....and give them their due = there are some people from other countries and even the odd non-Palestinian from that other part of Palestine that do go in and try to help and shield the Palestinians there. But I've seen video after video of settlers and/or the IDF going in rampaging/stealing/demolishing houses/etc in the West Bank.

It was certainly food for thought watching a recent West Bank video and the owners of the home concerned had had to put up very strong metal fencing around it to try and protect themselves and said that settlers were trying to trespass and damage their home on a pretty much daily basis and they were having to lock themselves into their own home to try and keep it.

It's bad if one has to put up security cameras and gates in our country to protect oneself from marauding neighbours - but the thought that if my house were there instead I'd have to also add tall strong metal gates and lock myself in and yet still the attacks would be nearly daily and I'd know they'd have no compunction about killing or injuring me or stealing/trashing my possessions is one heck of a sight worse. I guess the settlers and IDF are hoping to harass them so much that the next time they come to do so they will have psyched those women into leaving their home and they can just grab it.

I swear this harassment/theft/etc is all about "breaking their (the Palestinians) will". Breaking someone's will is a military tactic..

What chance do the Palestinians have when soldiers are violent towards small children and elderly women.
There is supposed to be a ceasefire but surely that should mean no violence.

Hanging in to the good news messages.
For the suffering, aid agencies, as well as food trucks, will hopefully feel able to return.

Anniebach

Hamas will not give up their power and Israel will not give up the need to free Gaza of Hamas

That’s it in a nutshell.
There’s a power vacuum now in Gaza and I doubt hamas have any intention whatsoever of handing over to anyone or putting down weapons.They’ll have to be made to.

Will look up that church you referred to, and also the Facebook suggestion.
Heading out soon, and will catch up later.

Maremia

Will look up that church you referred to, and also the Facebook suggestion.
Heading out soon, and will catch up later.

Yes it is good to have a balance and understand that there are Israelis who offer help to those suffering at the hands of the IDF and settlers.

Kindness is so uplifting.

It is also fascinating to understand those of the Jewish faith, who deny the existence of Israel.

There was footage of them in Tel Aviv and indeed in New York, burning Israeli flags.

They are those who are not conscripted into the IDF.

Hamas are enjoying their moment in time, and are not thinking about innocent civilians.

Whitewavemark2

It is also fascinating to understand those of the Jewish faith, who deny the existence of Israel.

There was footage of them in Tel Aviv and indeed in New York, burning Israeli flags.

They are those who are not conscripted into the IDF.

Religious extremism.

GrannyGravy13

Hamas are enjoying their moment in time, and are not thinking about innocent civilians.

The peace plan is being show up for the holes in its structure.

At the very least a peace keeping force should be there now.

Both protagonists are out of control.

Israel is a rather divided society and the views of some of the settlers certainly don't represent many of the Jews living in Israel or those in the diaspora. Unfortunately, as it's been so frequently said on GN, Netanyahu depends on the support of politicians who represent the extreme views of some of the settlers. If you look at the last election results they got a small percentage of the vote but Netanyahu is allowing them to wield great power.
It's a similar picture in Gaza. Hamas does not have the support of every Gazan, they gained power in 2006 with less than half the votes but they make the decisions for everyone living in Gaza and control by force of arms, control of resources and access to services. The Hamas of 2023 is a rather different force than the Hamas of 2006, which represented itself as a party of change and renewal at a time when the Palestinians were being very badly governed by the PA. They have had nearly 20 years to rue that decision.
There are thousands and thousands of decent people living in Israel and Gaza and they deserve better government than they all have had in recent times.

I think that’s something we can agree on foxie48

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

It is also fascinating to understand those of the Jewish faith, who deny the existence of Israel.

There was footage of them in Tel Aviv and indeed in New York, burning Israeli flags.

They are those who are not conscripted into the IDF.

Religious extremism.

I don't think they would agree with you that they are extremists.

It's as wrong to assume that all Israeli's support the atrocities that have been and continue to be carried out in Gaza and on the West Bank, as it is to assume that all Palestinians support Hamas.

There are thousands and thousands of decent people living in Israel and Gaza and they deserve better government than they all have had in recent times they do indeed foxie.

Smileless2012

It's as wrong to assume that all Israeli's support the atrocities that have been and continue to be carried out in Gaza and on the West Bank, as it is to assume that all Palestinians support Hamas.

There are thousands and thousands of decent people living in Israel and Gaza and they deserve better government than they all have had in recent times they do indeed foxie.

Yes and without American support who are by dint of the way power resides in the Knesset supporting the far right, the violence we are witnessing in West Bank and the determination to rid Gaza of Palestinians would never thrive.

Whitewavemark2

It is also fascinating to understand those of the Jewish faith, who deny the existence of Israel.

There was footage of them in Tel Aviv and indeed in New York, burning Israeli flags.

They are those who are not conscripted into the IDF.

It's my understanding they can't conscript the Jews (ie the religious ones who've been there all along).

I struggle with the idea of someone being "born Jewish" - as, to me, one is whatever religion (or none) one decides on as an adult. But I know I've got a South African friend in my agegroup - but who has lived in Britain since teenage and only recently realised she describes herself as "Jewish". Boy - does she go hell for leather verbally blasting Netanyahu/his government etc. She hates them with a passion for the way they are acting and does what she can to support the Palestinians.

I have noted that no-one but no-one ever puts her in fear for being Jewish...it's just accepted that she regards herself as that....and I'd say it's because she argues long and loud against what they're doing - and that is why she's just as safe as the rest of us (with whatever faith - or lack thereof - we've got). She's not had one attack on her to my knowledge ever (physically/verbally or any other way) for being Jewish - and I'd say it's because she makes it quite plain she doesn't side with them and does side with the real owners of Palestine.

Hence why I wonder why some Jews say they feel unsafe - and I'd say that I'm wondering whether it's nothing to do with them being Jews per se - and could be because they're siding with Netanyahu et al. Or, at the least, not condemning him and working against him and suspect they'd be perfectly safe if they made their opposition to him plain.

CariadAgain The Haredi Jews were exempt from conscription until the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in June 2024 against it, so since July 2024 they have been conscripted. Haredi is basically Ultra Orthodox and not necessarily Israeli, eg there's a large number of Hasidic Jews in London who would also be classified as "Haredi".

"I struggle with the idea of someone being "born Jewish" - as, to me, one is whatever religion (or none) one decides on as an adult"
Well I guess that's true of most religions but not for Jews, which generally does not proselytize because in Judaism there is a belief that non Jews can also find their way to God and ultimate salvation but it is made difficult to convert to Judaism for those not born a Jew. My maternal grandmother was a non practising Jew married to a non Jew, I found this out when doing my family tree. So I guess I'm "officially" Jewish but I don't feel it, was bought up as a Methodist and am now agnostic but I think if I turned up at a synagogue and showed my geneology I would be welcomed as a Jewish woman (albeit one who knew very little about Judaism) and so would my daughters. I'm sure one of our Jewish members would be able to confirm this.

Posters have such lovely and varied stories.

Glad you posted that foxie48 so I don’t need to. A maternal Jewish line is what counts.
As for deciding that you’re Jewish as a choice… ( CariadAgain)
It doesn’t work like that.You can be Jewish and non religious as very many Jews are.

Didnt know about the "show my geneology" thing.

Many years back I was living in Birmingham and the place I was living/working in did get invites to attend services from other faiths. Cue for I decided to attend two. Went to a Sikh temple and had a lovely time actually...welcomed....sat beside the sister of the guy in charge as she explained what was what to me, enjoyed the music, stayed for the communal lunch and came out with a rather positive impression all round. We were obviously allowed to attend Jewish "service" - as we'd had the invite - so I went to that as well subsequently and came out wondering whether I'd actually been allowed to go (but reminding myself we'd had an invite for any of us that wanted to go) - so I was allowed in and watched the service. But have no idea what was what - as I don't recall anyone saying anything to me. But I was curious - and I'll go to anyone else's religious service and take part - Lutheran, pagan, you name it...and I've pretty much been to it.

And that is how different folk and different faiths can actually come together.

Will get time this evening to look up that Facebook group you mentioned.

Maremia

And that is how different folk and different faiths can actually come together.

That's what I think Maremia - I say to people "You can be any religion you please or none - and that's up to you/I'm not bothered basically - unless you push it on other people or it's Black Magic" (which I do draw the line at and am not a happy bunny when I've spotted signs of it going on in the vicinity).

So the only times I've been concerned have been when I was in an evangelical Christian church way back and the man speaking said "Anyone can speak - as long as they're a man". Two minutes later everyone had witnessed me very publicly getting up and walking firmly out the door of the chapel - never to reappear and I would have still done so even if I'd been a man myself.
Back in my last city I was told how to recognise some signs of Black Magic - which would mysteriously have disappeared a couple of minutes after I'd seen them.

Apart from that - be what you please imo...and I only missed out on going to the Greek Orthodox service we'd been invited to as well in Birmingham because I took the precaution of looking up how long their services went on for - !!!!!! Think it was 8 hours or something....and even my curiosity wasn't enough to cover that....

So - yep....religious tolerance....

Must have been more than a little amusing to the boyfriend I was on holiday with when I took us both into Catholic churches for a look - and even more amusing when I found I knew exactly what everything was and busily told him (you don't learn that when you've been brought up by an Anglican and an agnostic - and I couldnt have told you how I knew it).

Magic? CariadAgain? Or were you a Catholic in a former life?
👀

Thanks again for the suggestions
Just finished listening to The Rest is Politcs from 2 years ago, just after the Atrocity. The two broadcasters give a very balanced discussion. Issues raised from all sides, and then comparing the hopelessness of the situation, to the despair felt in Northern Ireland before the Good Friday Agreement, implying, just keep trying to find a way.
There is another podcast with more up to date discussion of Gaza. Will get a chance to listen to that, now that I have found how to do it.