Billions squandered by Home Office!

I hope so- but Reform may be the new Tory party so we have to watch out!

I hope not, but then I would say that.
However, I do believe the Tories messed up and it will take a long time for people's trust to return.
I can barely remember the names mentioned above in the OP. That's part of the trouble - when ministers, (and Prime Ministers), come and go every five minutes and none have much of a clue.

I think corruption, lies and lack of accountability finally saw them off, but it started over a decade ago by cuts to public services, cuts to our standard of living, and the widening gap between the wealthy and everyone else.

Labour needs to think seriously about that.

Judging by reform’s record in the councils, it would be suicide to vote then into power!

I notice that the Greens have doubled their membership.

I believe that there’s waste and accountability problems with any government alongside incompetence, some we hear about and some that never sees the light of day, it’s beyond depressing.

Well another front page headline about the civil service incompetence let's face it this has been going on for decades, it not just the lone politicians who made these decisions it's the experience Civil servants. Until we start calling out the civil service nothing will change.
Are the Tories finished.. No
I think the Labour Party might be finished if they don't get a hold on this.

Tories and Labour all waste money.
Millions and Billions.

I wrote a thread or comments about a £100 million bat tunnel.
Most posters didnt care in the slightest,

Guess what? Now we get taxrd more. All of us.
I dont have sympathy for some people with that.

I do wonder sometimes what is the figure of wastage the Joe public are not happy about.
10 Billion?
100 Billion?

Visgir1

Well another front page headline about the civil service incompetence let's face it this has been going on for decades, it not just the lone politicians who made these decisions it's the experience Civil servants. Until we start calling out the civil service nothing will change.
Are the Tories finished.. No
I think the Labour Party might be finished if they don't get a hold on this.

I wouldnt mind a thread started about the civil service.
My knowledge about them is almost nil.

Hopefully, (but not likely) we will look again a FPTP and the two party system it leads to.

Inequality is so rife now you would think change might happen ... oh, but first we have to sort out what the last lot did - and why Reform, which is not a party but a company, is allowed to have MPs!

Can we have our democracy back please?

People clearly don’t understand what the civil service does, judging by the comments on this thread.

Perhaps a thread explaining what it does would be a good resource?

One thing that has been floated lately is a move towards a written constitution because of the danger of getting a trump-style government - Farage is deemed a danger to our constitution.

Johnson pushed it too far imo.

Whitewavemark2

People clearly don’t understand what the civil service does, judging by the comments on this thread.

Perhaps a thread explaining what it does would be a good resource?

You mean some comments.

Whitewavemark2

People clearly don’t understand what the civil service does, judging by the comments on this thread.

Perhaps a thread explaining what it does would be a good resource?

Definitely

The US has a written Constitution….. can’t see that it helps.

My earlier knowledge of the Civil Service was garnered from Yes Minister and the Yes Prime Minister…

I think we all know a bit about the Civil Service in the background. But a lot of people just go by what is said by the lone ministers they see delivering the policies. (I guess they have a desolate task!)
More information would be welcome from someone who knows how this all fits in.

Now there's a thought Whitewave but I wonder if it's another deflection from actually doing something. Hasn't Trump just walked over the rules and the balances of the US "written" constitution?

To me it seems our constitution is fine, and if we can't make those with power live within it why assume they will live within a new, less historically based, one.

It's the imbalance of power, wielded by the super rich, that worries me. That seems to be what has enabled Trump.

GrannyGravy13

My earlier knowledge of the Civil Service was garnered from Yes Minister and the Yes Prime Minister…

And you know that was just a comedy series based on some groups willingness to blame "others", any "others" as long as they are identifiable, right?

DaisyAnneReturns

GrannyGravy13

My earlier knowledge of the Civil Service was garnered from Yes Minister and the Yes Prime Minister…

And you know that was just a comedy series based on some groups willingness to blame "others", any "others" as long as they are identifiable, right?

Of course I know it was a comedy series, as is/was The Thick of it 🤦‍♀️

DaisyAnneReturns

Now there's a thought Whitewave but I wonder if it's another deflection from actually doing something. Hasn't Trump just walked over the rules and the balances of the US "written" constitution?

To me it seems our constitution is fine, and if we can't make those with power live within it why assume they will live within a new, less historically based, one.

It's the imbalance of power, wielded by the super rich, that worries me. That seems to be what has enabled Trump.

Trump is able to do what he is doing because the judiciary and civil service heads are political appointments.

That is why the civil service and judiciary in our country is independent and should remain so.

But he had to get into power to be able to use their lack of separation of powers - or in some cases just put himself above it Whitewave and that was because he could buy people, votes, etc.

All potential despots seem to have used and abused laws when it suits them. Whatever they can get away with - just look back at Johnson .

I think it's easy to suggest that all governments waste money and that civil servants are not up to the job but I do wonder what effect the dismissal of so many very high profile civil servants with long careers working for different governments has affected the services that we receive today. These were names that hit the headlines for a few days but probably completely forgotten by most of us. Just a few of the permanent secretaries sacked or made to resign by the last government:
Philip Rutter, Home office, actually took the government to court over bullying by P Patel but was paid off!
Clare Moriaty Brexit
Richard Heaton, Justice
Simon McDonald, Foreign Office
Jonathan Slater, Education
Mark Sedwill, Cabinet Secretary and Head of Home Office
Tom Scholar, Treasury
19 out of 20 permanent secretaries were moved meaning the expertise that they gained from their long experience in a particular department was lost and frequent changes in government ministers resulted in no one at the top having much experience. I think we are now witnessing the results of the chaos of the Tory government, particularly that of Johnson and his chief advisor, Cummins, who despised the civil service.

When billions[and that is not even millions] of £s are wasted, no matter what taxes are raised, it wont turn things around properly, economically.

But people will and contually do shout "you cant cut the NHS, education, etc etc etc etc etc"
not really realising that you can, if it was only wasteage that was stopped.

But not going to happen is it?
And especially under a Labout government[though Tories got so similar to Labour that I personally can babrely tell any difference between them now].

I agree Foxie48. The weakness of the Anerican system of inserting political appointee to top and middle civil service jobs is their lack of relevant experience. In the UK the continuity of the unbiased civil service is a great advantage. Sime 95+% of government tasks are routinely carried out by civil servants with no Ministerial input at all. The main problem lies not with Permanent Secretaries and other senior staff but with politicians who are good at getting elected but lack relevant governmental experience, are ideologically committed to impossible objectives and have a five year horizon.

The British civil service is a meritocracy