Pro Palestinian crowds shrieking and yelling at the Aston Villa Park Stadium

The team players are from various countries and religions in the Tel Aviv side.

Oreo

You’re really confusing posters with your penchant for calling Israel ‘Palestine’ you know.
The professional team players from Tel Aviv don’t represent anything that Israel does, and there’s no boycott in the UK of anything from Israel in any case.
In my view politics should never affect sports.

Guess you'd forgotten that some poster or posters (that won't even admit to doing so) scream for a post calling it inverted commas....common name....inverted commas to be censored off - and it is!!!!!!

It would help if the censor/s would stop....

I just saw it on one of the placards a protester was holding up maremiaand it gave me pause for thought.

Obviously the placard holder either regarded the football players as killers or the people who’d turned up to support them as killers or both. Because there weren’t any actual killers there but she identified them as such.

So guilt by association or nationality? Which is what some of the replies to my first post said I think. Not antisemitism because it was Israelis, but still right because they were Israelis.

Now the thing is will that be applied across the board. Are the people of Gaza killers because their government has killed civilians?

And if it doesn’t apply to them why should it be applied to all Israelis- or just to football team and its supporters.

Or should people actually examine why they would apply it to one set of people and not to another?

A very good point Lathyrus3 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Thanks Lathyrus, I misread your post. I thought you had read that one of our Posters had said that.

Oreo

A large proportion I bet RamblingRose22

Wyllow3 What has Hitler got to do with the situation at Villa Park?
Politics shouldn’t intrude into sport, it’s all wrong.

Probably because so much that happened in the 1930’s is happening now and we need to learn from history ( but never do ).

South Africa was banned from taking part in international sport because of apartheid.

Russia is currently banned because of Ukraine

I think it is important in order to send a message both to the government and its citizens.

Israel sports teams are not banned from coming to the UK and taking part…just in case some posters don’t realise that.

Whitewavemark2

South Africa was banned from taking part in international sport because of apartheid.

Russia is currently banned because of Ukraine

I think it is important in order to send a message both to the government and its citizens.

Quite!

They are not some "poor little picked-on part of a country they wish to have all of..."

The clue is in the bit "they wish to have all of - on top of the bit they've already claimed".

This is where I envy people who've never had a bit of land or garden stolen off them by neighbours - and I guess that's why they don't understand the whole situation is completely unacceptable and why the Palestinians will always count all of Palestine as still being Palestine. Yep those people who've had some land stolen off them will always describe ALL of their land as theirs...and won't stop describing it that way ever just because some official bit of paper they never agreed to says so....

In any circumstance - from top to bottom - any bit of land that is yours will always remain yours unless you've sold it or given it away. Hence why you still describe it as yours....because it still is....

If a squatter moved into a home in Britain and made out it was theirs - the rightful owner will still retain the keys to it and will still describe it as theirs and will never give up ownership of it. I don't see how that seems to be hard for some people to understand just why older Palestinians are still trying to harvest their olives, still keep their keys to their stolen homes, etc. They weren't "bought and paid for" - so obviously they are still theirs...

Neither are other team's fans. These specific fans were banned because of actual Police reports from other countries.

There you go with the fans again Maremia if you read comments properly you’ll see that it’s teams being talked about and not fans….two distinct things.

CariadAgain
I think that your feud with neighbours over your garden seems to have made you think it’s exactly the same with Israel but it really isn’t you know.

Good points CariadAgain with good analogies..

bmacca

I’m a Villa fan. I was at last night’s game. It was a great result for Villa doing Maccabi Tel Aviv 2-0. Great result for the locals from Aston & the surrounding area who came out to say the football drenched in apartheid & genocide isn't welcome in Birmingham or anywhere else.

There were around 200 pro Palestine protesters and around 70/80 pro Israel protesters. The pro Palestine group were grouped in the park/playground area which is across the street from Villa Park. They did not prevent any Villa fans getting into the ground. There was one incident where police tried to close a gate on some Villa fans but once it was clear they were fans with tickets and not protesters, this was quickly resolved.

The pro Israel group had sent trucks with electronic messages on to circle the ground. This group congregated on the opposite side of the ground but wanted to march along two roads to the playground area. They did this under a police escort. The police stopped them when they reached the start of the playground area where there is a basketball court. This was not a “Jew cage” and they were not locked in.

We saw people being arrested from both sets of protesters. A couple of arrests also appeared to be teenagers who were filming on TikTok and refused to move when told to by the police.

There were a number of Maccabi supporters in seats inside the ground. They displayed scarves & T-shirts showing their support. They were not subjected to any abuse from Villa fans, apart from a bit of banter about being Londoners.

I am dismayed at some of the racist overtones to the comments about Birmingham. Birmingham is a lively, diverse and welcoming city

Thank you, so good to hear what actually happened. Congratulations on your teams win.

Lathyrus3

I just saw it on one of the placards a protester was holding up maremiaand it gave me pause for thought.

Obviously the placard holder either regarded the football players as killers or the people who’d turned up to support them as killers or both. Because there weren’t any actual killers there but she identified them as such.

So guilt by association or nationality? Which is what some of the replies to my first post said I think. Not antisemitism because it was Israelis, but still right because they were Israelis.

Now the thing is will that be applied across the board. Are the people of Gaza killers because their government has killed civilians?

And if it doesn’t apply to them why should it be applied to all Israelis- or just to football team and its supporters.

Or should people actually examine why they would apply it to one set of people and not to another?

Don't almost all young Israelis serve in the army? If so and there isn't an exemption for footballers then the Israelis in the team must have served in the IDF, the army that has been killing innocent children.

Why is an Israeli team in the Europa League? They aren't a european team.

Thanks Onlymedea. Obviously I’m delighted that Villa won as we needed the points but I’m also glad the game is over. Apart from a lot of noise, which is fairly typical from a football ground anyway, there were no outbreaks of violence which is what I had worried about before the match.

Oreo

The team players are from various countries and religions in the Tel Aviv side.

Yes, but Maccabi is still an Israeli team. Liverpool FC has players from all over the world and of many different religions, but nobody would dispute it's a English team.

Oreo

CariadAgain
I think that your feud with neighbours over your garden seems to have made you think it’s exactly the same with Israel but it really isn’t you know.

Ah right - I forgot - the neighbours don't have a 3,000 year old book they can quote saying that property that isnt theirs is theirs....

I'll give you that - there's one difference = no "holy book".

Onlymedea

Lathyrus3

I just saw it on one of the placards a protester was holding up maremiaand it gave me pause for thought.

Obviously the placard holder either regarded the football players as killers or the people who’d turned up to support them as killers or both. Because there weren’t any actual killers there but she identified them as such.

So guilt by association or nationality? Which is what some of the replies to my first post said I think. Not antisemitism because it was Israelis, but still right because they were Israelis.

Now the thing is will that be applied across the board. Are the people of Gaza killers because their government has killed civilians?

And if it doesn’t apply to them why should it be applied to all Israelis- or just to football team and its supporters.

Or should people actually examine why they would apply it to one set of people and not to another?

Don't almost all young Israelis serve in the army? If so and there isn't an exemption for footballers then the Israelis in the team must have served in the IDF, the army that has been killing innocent children.

That had me on Chat GPT with a query about that.

The men have to go into the IDF at 18 years old and serve about 32 months.

The women have to go into the IDF at 18 years old and serve about 24 months.

Thinks - wonder if that is the second they get to 18 years old or, if they're still in education, then when they finish that. Think I'll head back for a supplementary question on that point.....

In other words - none of those men I've seen photos of coming here to support their team looked under 18 to me and that would mean they have indeed done a stint in that army.

Middle East Eye reported that police in the Netherlands told WM Police that more than two hundred ‘fans’ were not just a racist mob that had run riot in Amsterdam last November, attacking Muslims and other locals, but were “linked to the Israel Defence Forces” (IDF) – with “hundreds more” also “highly organised” “experienced fighters” who were determined to cause “serious violence” in Birmingham.

The above information explains why some of the pro Palestine group refers to the Maccabi fans as “killers”. It is also worth noting that out of 37 players listed for Maccabi this season, 29 are Israeli. Serving in the IDF is mandatory for Israeli citizens, which means that 29 of Maccabi’s players could have actively committed genocide. Hence why demonstrators are calling for the team to be banned from the competition

bmacca - I remember that point coming up re the Netherlands Police. Valid point.

Quick glance for exemptions for them basically boiling down to if they're deemed medically unfit or having serious criminal convictions.

I get it re the "having committed genocide" point - given the number of photos/videos up there one can see of them with a smile plastered on their face after their "bad behaviour" or parading round someone's ruined home with female underwear from the owners of the home. That's before we get into the humiliating stuff they do to Palestinian men sometimes. They give every appearance of enjoying themselves/being arrogant etc etc.

bmacca that is what I read.

Oreo, if I want to talk about the fans, I will do so, with or without your permission. You talk about your choice of subject, I will discuss mine.
That's the GN way, isn't it?

I didn't know that, bmacca, about the link to the IDF.