Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

foxie48

Pastor Rikki Doulan belongs to the Spirit Embassy church which tells its followers that membership is a passport to wealth acquisition. Tbh I don't think it sounds very "Christian" to me.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24).

I'm probably very cynical too foxie.

I'm probably being very cynical but I suspect that the Church of Spirit Embassy, founded by Uebert & Beverly Angel is more about making money for the founders rather than for it's followers.

Thank you for that piece of information, foxie. I have attended a number of churches over my seventy plus years, and have never been promised wealth acquisition.
Can the members of the Reverend Doulan sue if they stay poor?

fancythat

^That is the thing with translations, particularly a translation of a translation^

Most older Christians I know, either read or refer back to the King James Bible.

Yes one of the translations.

Pastor Rikki Doulan belongs to the Spirit Embassy church which tells its followers that membership is a passport to wealth acquisition. Tbh I don't think it sounds very "Christian" to me.

Have lost track a wee bit. Is Stephen YL putting on a carol service to celebrate Christmas, or is he hi-jacking someone else's ceremony?

Tommy Robinson, the controversial far-right activist and founder of the English Defence League, was “led to Christ” while serving time in prison, according to Pastor Rikki Doolan.

Speaking exclusively to Premier, Pastor Doolan revealed that during a prison visit, Robinson made a personal decision to follow Jesus Christ.

“Whilst Tommy was in prison, he was incarcerated for seven months and held in solitary confinement. Three weeks before his release, I went to visit him in prison,” Pastor Doolan told Premier Christian Radio.
Mon 15 Sep 2025

Has it made him love his neighbour as himself?
🤔

Elegran

Another spanner in the virgin works is that I have a feeling that in the earlier prophesy the word for a "very young woman", - ie one who had not begun to menstruate - was the word which was later translated to mean "virgin". Perhaps it changed its meaning in the centuries between the OT prophesy and its NT fulfilment. Even in the bible, the exact meaning of a word can change over time.

It is possible to become pregnant from a first ovulation, before the first period demonstrates that a girl has reached her menses. If it was customary for girls to marry soon after they had passed that milestone and were theoretically capable of conceiving, then for one who had not reached it to become pregnant could be considered miraculous. There are other miraculous pregnancies in the OT, apparently beyond the other end of childbearing years. Did people then always know their exact ages?

Interesting Elegran.

It has been said that Mary was probably a young teenager at the time of the birth of Jesus.

King James yes

That is the thing with translations, particularly a translation of a translation

Most older Christians I know, either read or refer back to the King James Bible.

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
Romans 10:9-10

CORRUPTION of the Christian faith “to exclude others” is “unacceptable”, the bishops of the diocese of Southwark have said, in response to Tommy Robinson’s planned carol service in London this weekend.

The Bishop of Southwark, the Rt Revd Christopher Chessun, together with the suffragan bishops of Croydon, Kingston, and Woolwich, said in a joint statement on Wednesday that they were “gravely concerned about the use of Christian symbols and rhetoric to apparently justify racism and anti-migrant rhetoric”.

“We are better than this,” they said, and urged those who “may be swept-up in movements like this who don’t necessarily buy-in wholesale to what is being said” to “think again”, and to “choose compassion and understanding over hostility and conflict”.

The event, scheduled for Saturday, promises to “put Christ back into Christmas”. But in their statement, the Southwark bishops write: “Christ has always been at the heart of Christmas — and those who claim him need to be serious about what he stands for. The authenticity of a person’s faith may be judged by their actions.

“As we approach the season of Christmas, the Church prepares to celebrate the birth of a child born in the Middle East to be the saviour of the whole world. A child who, with his parents, became a refugee, fleeing those who would do them harm.”

Earlier this week, the Bishop of Kirkstall, the Rt Revd Arun Arora, warned that “populist forces” were “seeking to exploit the faith for their political ends”. His comments, and a poster campaign depicting the nativity in a bus stop, provoked a furious response from the organisers of the Unite the Kingdom carol service (News, 9 December).

The extensive use of Christian imagery at a Unite the Kingdom rally in September was condemned by church leaders from a range of denominations (News, 26 September).

“The cross of Christ is the ultimate sign of sacrifice for the other,” the Southwark bishops said in their statement. “Jesus calls us to love not just those whom we like or agree with or who look like us — but to love our enemies and welcome the stranger.”

Bishop Chessun, along with his suffragans, Dr Rosemarie Mallett, the Rt Revd Alastair Cutting and Dr Martin Gainsborough, reflected on recent meetings with clergy to discuss the issues raised by such demonstrations.

They said that they were planning to develop resources to help Christians respond to the issues in a way that was “Christ centred” and “outward-focused”.

“We are proud of our nation and our communities — and we know that we are better than this. We call upon all Christians to commit themselves afresh to work with others in building a more United Kingdom, where the values of love, humility and compassion shine through in every community. Let’s do so unapologetically in the name of Jesus Christ,” the statement concluded.

Yes Elegran, his father being God.

Smileless2012

That does however raise the question who was Jesus' father.

That question was asked 2025 years ago by the neighbours, when it was assumed that Joseph would reject her. Jesus answered it twelve years later, replying to those who criticised him for cheekily debating theology and the law with the elders in the temple - "I must be about my father's business".

Smileless2012

That does however raise the question who was Jesus' father.

God is father to us all.

Elegran

Another spanner in the virgin works is that I have a feeling that in the earlier prophesy the word for a "very young woman", - ie one who had not begun to menstruate - was the word which was later translated to mean "virgin". Perhaps it changed its meaning in the centuries between the OT prophesy and its NT fulfilment. Even in the bible, the exact meaning of a word can change over time.

It is possible to become pregnant from a first ovulation, before the first period demonstrates that a girl has reached her menses. If it was customary for girls to marry soon after they had passed that milestone and were theoretically capable of conceiving, then for one who had not reached it to become pregnant could be considered miraculous. There are other miraculous pregnancies in the OT, apparently beyond the other end of childbearing years. Did people then always know their exact ages?

That is the thing with translations, particularly a translation of a translation. Take Jesus having brothers, I think the word for brother had a different meaning to a biological sibling, could be a spiritual brother or a close male relative.

An Arab friend told me that as I donated my milk to the hospital milk bank I must make sure that if any of my children was getting married they weren't marrying someone who had donated milk as a baby. Their relationship would be incestuous as taking milk from the same woman made you siblings. Sounds funny to us but in his culture it was very serious. An example of how translation is much more than swapping one word for another, you need to understand the culture and subtle variations.

It was a long time ago that I heard that suggestion, Smileless, and I have no recollection where or when. I don't think anyone is going to suddenly find long hidden over-2000-year-old DNA to test, or a signed and dated diary entry with incontrovertable proof of one thing or another, so it will stay a matter of personal belief.

Smileless2012

I seem to have made an error of judgement theworriedwell. I thought you were open to a sensible exchange of views and arguments but it seems that you're not.

Well you're the one who keeps telling us we must literally believe what it says in the bible until it is inconvenient. Can't you see that this is a book written by many men, there are different versions of it and sometimes we should question what it says, think about it and work out where we see the truth.

I think one of the biggest problems with the bible is people picking out bits that suit them. So if one author writes something that doesn't "fit" there will be something that does fit in another book.

Elegran

Another spanner in the virgin works is that I have a feeling that in the earlier prophesy the word for a "very young woman", - ie one who had not begun to menstruate - was the word which was later translated to mean "virgin". Perhaps it changed its meaning in the centuries between the OT prophesy and its NT fulfilment. Even in the bible, the exact meaning of a word can change over time.

It is possible to become pregnant from a first ovulation, before the first period demonstrates that a girl has reached her menses. If it was customary for girls to marry soon after they had passed that milestone and were theoretically capable of conceiving, then for one who had not reached it to become pregnant could be considered miraculous. There are other miraculous pregnancies in the OT, apparently beyond the other end of childbearing years. Did people then always know their exact ages?

Interesting and new to me Elegran
Thank you

That does however raise the question who was Jesus' father.

That is a possibility Elegran but not a certainty.

StoneofDestiny

Trump style 'politics' has taken over the wave of right wing politicians, activists and voters here. Robinson and Farage are doing all they can to divide the country, blame migrants for everything that is wrong in our country and now waving crosses around to claim god is on their side. Ghastly and obnoxious as it is, it's hard to believe anybody, with any sense of morality, being convinced these people are the people to put your trust in as a way forward for the country. Not only are they mixed up with Trump, Putin and Netanyahu but they are unashamed racists.

It’s all taken from a very old playbook. Shame so many are simple enough to fall for it

Another spanner in the virgin works is that I have a feeling that in the earlier prophesy the word for a "very young woman", - ie one who had not begun to menstruate - was the word which was later translated to mean "virgin". Perhaps it changed its meaning in the centuries between the OT prophesy and its NT fulfilment. Even in the bible, the exact meaning of a word can change over time.

It is possible to become pregnant from a first ovulation, before the first period demonstrates that a girl has reached her menses. If it was customary for girls to marry soon after they had passed that milestone and were theoretically capable of conceiving, then for one who had not reached it to become pregnant could be considered miraculous. There are other miraculous pregnancies in the OT, apparently beyond the other end of childbearing years. Did people then always know their exact ages?

Trump style 'politics' has taken over the wave of right wing politicians, activists and voters here. Robinson and Farage are doing all they can to divide the country, blame migrants for everything that is wrong in our country and now waving crosses around to claim god is on their side. Ghastly and obnoxious as it is, it's hard to believe anybody, with any sense of morality, being convinced these people are the people to put your trust in as a way forward for the country. Not only are they mixed up with Trump, Putin and Netanyahu but they are unashamed racists.