This government has me puzzled

Proves my point then? I didn’t really think it was shades…

It's wonderful news that there is to be a crackdown on cruel farming practices, and an end to 'trail-hunting'. Tony Blair was the prime minister when the hunting ban was first brought in. Now he says he regrets it. I wonder why.

I am not puzzled by Labour. I know exactly what Labour is and does. I have lived through one Labour government and had to recover along with the rest of the country from the damage they left behind. I did not think I would have to go through another one. What does puzzle me however, is why people still vote for them! Now, that is a puzzle!

They have moved the IHT on farmers from £1,000,000 to £2,500,000, they have listened 👏👏👏

GrannyGravy13

They have moved the IHT on farmers from £1,000,000 to £2,500,000, they have listened 👏👏👏

They agreed with gritted teeth because a lot of Labour MP were against the change, Family Farms can now breathe a little easier and the business can continue.

GrannyGravy13

They have moved the IHT on farmers from £1,000,000 to £2,500,000, they have listened 👏👏👏

Yes, they have listened. And they are prepared to admit it when they get things wrong. Which some may say is a sign of weakness but I think is brave of them.

love0c

I am not puzzled by Labour. I know exactly what Labour is and does. I have lived through one Labour government and had to recover along with the rest of the country from the damage they left behind. I did not think I would have to go through another one. What does puzzle me however, is why people still vote for them! Now, that is a puzzle!

So, how have you benefitted from Conservative governments and, out of interest who do you want to replace Labour?

love0c

I am not puzzled by Labour. I know exactly what Labour is and does. I have lived through one Labour government and had to recover along with the rest of the country from the damage they left behind. I did not think I would have to go through another one. What does puzzle me however, is why people still vote for them! Now, that is a puzzle!

Why is someone only 18 to 25 years old on Gransnet? Happy to see you here, of course, but most of us will have "lived through" all or most of the Labour government's. I have to admit to not being around for all of the first one, but I am well aware that this changed the possibilities for so many of the current older generations lives. You don't appear to know this. Just as a history lesson for the "youth" that now seems to be joining us:

In UK terms, Labour governments have been:

1945–1951

1964–1970

1974–1979

1997–2010

2024–present

David49

GrannyGravy13

They have moved the IHT on farmers from £1,000,000 to £2,500,000, they have listened 👏👏👏

They agreed with gritted teeth because a lot of Labour MP were against the change, Family Farms can now breathe a little easier and the business can continue.

Isn't that the positive side of the party system. You seem to think it a bad thing. Or is that your bias showing? - slating the party you didn't vote for whatever they do?

I didn't vote for them either but debate is about objective reality. Remember the quote "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion.", or the Ricky Gervais quote “If facts hurt your feelings, you need new feelings, not new facts” The far-right currently feed people's feelings. Is that really all people want out of life.

The far-right currently feed people's feelings.

Why assume anyone who is against some of the unwise policies of this Government is far-right? They might even be Labour MPs, members of the public with common sense and can see the potentially disastrous consequences of such policies.

Some may even have voted for this Government.
Some even stood for Parliament to represent the Labour Party but are watching some of the decisions the Government makes with a clearer eye and common sense and can see how wrong they are.

love0c

I am not puzzled by Labour. I know exactly what Labour is and does. I have lived through one Labour government and had to recover along with the rest of the country from the damage they left behind. I did not think I would have to go through another one. What does puzzle me however, is why people still vote for them! Now, that is a puzzle!

I'm always puzzled by those who support the tories as it is their economic policies, starting with Thatcher and continuing to the present day, which have brought the UK to its knees. The Blair/Brown governments, while they didn't go as far left as people would have wanted, made a start on repairing some of thatcher's damage.

That damage?

Cutting state spending so now public services are on their knees, the NHS, education, the courts, prisons, police, social care..

Privatising everything that could be privatised (Thatcher didn't dare privatise the NHS though she would have loved to) but water (that's been a huge success, hasn't it?) rail. the Royal Mail, the national grid, public transport...

Osborne's 'austerity' threw people out of work and ruined businesses dependent on public sector work and over all failure to implement any sort of industrial strategy.

Culminating in the disastrous vote to leave the EU which has caused great economic harm to the UK.

I don't particularly defend the current government. I think it is inept and is driving the country into the arms of
Reform, which has nothing to offer but slogans and culture war. But tory governments have done the damage which the UK might never recover from.

Yes, they have listened. And they are prepared to admit it when they get things wrong. Which some may say is a sign of weakness but I think is brave of them.

Well yes! My problem is that the facts of the impact was obvious when introduced and highlights a serious lack of proper strategic analysis of all aspects before implementing the change in the first place. Which also applies to some of the other U-Turns made!

Allira

^The far-right currently feed people's feelings.^

Why assume anyone who is against some of the unwise policies of this Government is far-right? They might even be Labour MPs, members of the public with common sense and can see the potentially disastrous consequences of such policies.

Some may even have voted for this Government.
Some even stood for Parliament to represent the Labour Party but are watching some of the decisions the Government makes with a clearer eye and common sense and can see how wrong they are.

I didn't assume that Allira.

The influence is everywhere, whether you want it or not. They work in feelings not facts and you have to be prepared to work hard to avoid this.

Emotional reasoning is a cognitive bias that assumes that what you feel must be true, even when evidence suggests otherwise. That's why so many voted for Brexit and why so many follow Trump and Farage. People were told what they wanted to hear. It works on everyone unless you make yourself aware.

Psychologists will tell individuals, working their way through traumatic relationships, that you cannot change the other person, only your attitude to them, i.e., face what and who they actually are and what they say against what actually happens. They are what they do.

Emotional reasoning - and we see so much of it on here - is insidious. It distorts reality, causes self-doubt, impairs decision making and tends to become cyclical.

If this behaviour was used in a relationship we would call it coercive control. Do people really set out to hand this control to someone else?

I can't remember if putting IHT on farms was in the Manifesto or not and don't have time to trawl through atm.

Can anyone remember?

Madgran77

*Yes, they have listened. And they are prepared to admit it when they get things wrong. Which some may say is a sign of weakness but I think is brave of them.*

Well yes! My problem is that the facts of the impact was obvious when introduced and highlights a serious lack of proper strategic analysis of all aspects before implementing the change in the first place. Which also applies to some of the other U-Turns made!

the facts of the impact was obvious when introduced and highlights a serious lack of proper strategic analysis of all aspects before implementing the change in the first place.

I agree.

Allira

I can't remember if putting IHT on farms was in the Manifesto or not and don't have time to trawl through atm.

Can anyone remember?

It wasn’t in the agenda nor was increasing employers NI and many other changes.

Daisy - I got married in 1980 so only the last Labour government really applied to me and my family! Hence, I said I did not think I would have to live through another one!

Halal slaughter differs little from Kosher slaughter in the use of a knife on a healthy animal. There are peripheral differences too do with the specification of the knife, before and after inspections and religious invocations. Yet there seems to be more noise about Halal than Kosher. I wonder why.

To my mind neither is unduly cruel compared with, say, the captive bolt killer which I witnessed in a small slaughterhouse when doing blood-related research years ago.

love0c

Daisy - I got married in 1980 so only the last Labour government really applied to me and my family! Hence, I said I did not think I would have to live through another one!

So you didn’t experience the Thatcher years when none of us knew from one month to the next if we were going to lose our jobs?

DaisyAnneReturns

love0c

I am not puzzled by Labour. I know exactly what Labour is and does. I have lived through one Labour government and had to recover along with the rest of the country from the damage they left behind. I did not think I would have to go through another one. What does puzzle me however, is why people still vote for them! Now, that is a puzzle!

Why is someone only 18 to 25 years old on Gransnet? Happy to see you here, of course, but most of us will have "lived through" all or most of the Labour government's. I have to admit to not being around for all of the first one, but I am well aware that this changed the possibilities for so many of the current older generations lives. You don't appear to know this. Just as a history lesson for the "youth" that now seems to be joining us:

In UK terms, Labour governments have been:

1945–1951

1964–1970

1974–1979

1997–2010

2024–present

Sorry, but this is a patronising post, and not at all welcome to younger posters[who are more than welcome on this thread in my opinion].

You said "happy to see you here, of course" but the rest of your words didnt bear that out.

If they are intent on improving animal welfare, they shoukd ban halal slaughter. Bit of course they wont.

Allira

Madgran77

Yes, they have listened. And they are prepared to admit it when they get things wrong. Which some may say is a sign of weakness but I think is brave of them.

Well yes! My problem is that the facts of the impact was obvious when introduced and highlights a serious lack of proper strategic analysis of all aspects before implementing the change in the first place. Which also applies to some of the other U-Turns made!

the facts of the impact was obvious when introduced and highlights a serious lack of proper strategic analysis of all aspects before implementing the change in the first place.

I agree.

Bit like Brexit then …

Ronib Apparently not a climb down, (would the government change their mind about anything) it is a refinement of what was already decided. Next time I'm changing my mind on anything I'll have to remember I'm only refining my thoughts!

MayBee70

nanna8

I’m wondering if some here either are in the government as spokespersons or have shades over their eyes? I’m inclined to think the former.

I don’t have shades over my eyes. I just look at the whole picture not just the one given by the mainly right wing press which is owned by people who neither live or pay taxes here. And whose sole interest is in making rich people ( such as themselves) richer. As for this government it dawned on me today that we actually have a government that will say ok we got that wrong, we’ll look into it. If only the Conservative government(s) would have admitted that Brexit was a financial disaster ( which were still suffering from) but, no, they literally had to keep pretending it was a good thing.

well said Maybe70 I think this gov't have done well in their 18 months, an improved NHS, school breakfast, updated kids playgrounds, all the things I support them for

Robin202

If they are intent on improving animal welfare, they shoukd ban halal slaughter. Bit of course they wont.

Exactly, although it will never happen 🤬