Now we are beginning to understand why the international rule of law is so important.

It IS important, but when the 'good guys' go rogue, who will uphold it?

And, or maybe also where were we when Ukraine was invaded in 2014?
Obviously talking about Crimea here...

Now Trump is threatening a NATO country of course he is, he'll do whatever he likes because no one is prepared to stand up to him.

Every country has different beliefs and standards and I think those very few precepts which all agree on should be upheld. Maybe the 10 commandments. That was probably why they started in the first place.

Trump does as he pleases and the international rule of law means nothing to him.
The US is powerful and with Trump as their leader the world is their oyster. The ordinary people of the US of course don't benefit.
Who will stand up to Trump? Somebody needs to stand up to a bully or they will just carry on.

Yes- or at least hopefully we do.

International rule of law is important to protect peace and democracy, both of which become threatened by authoritarian leaders seeking to expand their own territory and power illegally over other countries.

There are now important political questions about what the pathway towards democracy for Venezuela will be after Trump's recent actions, which were illegal under international law. Most lawyers would agree that by any reasonable standard Trump's actions can not be characterised as a "law enforcement action". Albeit that is now what Trump will try to do domestically in US courts....and even though he took action without any Congress debate or consent. The world watches on and holds its breath.....

The removal of Maduro in itself could be perceived as a good thing if his removal leads to democracy in Venezuela.

The risk however is that Trump has become emboldened and will extend similar actions for territory and/or power grab- Canada, Greenland are in his plain sight. The more Trump "gets away" with failing to comply with international rule- the more democracy is put at risk for all its democratic allies.

I also fear Trump's actions destabilises further political discourse in the UK. For example, Tice, the deputy leader of Reform UK has defended Trump's actions saying " it's clearly in accordance with domestic law. Layers will argue, of course, about UN article 51. The reality is that an enemy of the west has been removed".

So I fear that the UK may at some time have a Reform UK government that also does not respect international rules of law.

Well…Starmer won’t condemn the US action in Venezuela either and is pleased an enemy has been removed so it isn’t just Reform.I haven’t heard Badenoch condemning it as yet come to that.
The US has for a very long time and under different Presidents favoured intervention in South American countries and removed their leaders, this isn’t a new thing.
Corbyn used to praise Maduro to the skies and all the far left in the Labour Party, who are still there by the way, even tho Maduro brought his country to the brink of ruin.Plenty of celebrations going on now by the people there.
International rule of law doesn’t help where despots are in charge and ruin their own countries or where they laugh at International law, Putin comes to mind.Sometimes strong measures need to be taken.

Trump is now threatening Colombia!

LemonJam

Yes- or at least hopefully we do.

International rule of law is important to protect peace and democracy, both of which become threatened by authoritarian leaders seeking to expand their own territory and power illegally over other countries.

There are now important political questions about what the pathway towards democracy for Venezuela will be after Trump's recent actions, which were illegal under international law. Most lawyers would agree that by any reasonable standard Trump's actions can not be characterised as a "law enforcement action". Albeit that is now what Trump will try to do domestically in US courts....and even though he took action without any Congress debate or consent. The world watches on and holds its breath.....

The removal of Maduro in itself could be perceived as a good thing if his removal leads to democracy in Venezuela.

The risk however is that Trump has become emboldened and will extend similar actions for territory and/or power grab- Canada, Greenland are in his plain sight. The more Trump "gets away" with failing to comply with international rule- the more democracy is put at risk for all its democratic allies.

I also fear Trump's actions destabilises further political discourse in the UK. For example, Tice, the deputy leader of Reform UK has defended Trump's actions saying " it's clearly in accordance with domestic law. Layers will argue, of course, about UN article 51. The reality is that an enemy of the west has been removed".

So I fear that the UK may at some time have a Reform UK government that also does not respect international rules of law.

Yes, it is notable how USA lawyers are saying that the action was entirely against international law.

This will be tried and tested in the UN and it will be interesting to read the statements and votes.

Getting rid of a criminal/illegitimate leader by another country may be seen as a good thing - provided democracy, the rule of law etc is installed in its place - but this is such a dangerous path to go down, as this says might should rule.

The USA has such a poor history in this though. I can’t think of a single country (except Panama, but that is a particular case) where they have gone in to remove what they deem to be an illegitimate leader and the country has gone on to thrive without hardship etc.

The USA has opened the most appalling can of worms, China and Russia will now feel free to follow the same road.

China and Russia would always do what they want to when they think the time is right, they didn’t need a mandate from the US.

Unless the Trump adminstatrtion hugely bungles the case of Maduro's indictment- there will probably be a conviction and prison sentence. Many, many Venezuelans may be pleased about that.

However to illegally abduct a leader from another country that has engaged in no hostilities against the US, without even the appearance of an effort to enlist the support of the American public or their elected representatives in Congress, and without even the semblance of a stated plan how Venezuela will now be governed - is surreal.

It represents a new moment in US presidential power and the Law. An appalling can of worms indeed.

The US is supposedly a democracy- unlike Russia and China.

International law is only as effective as the respect for it by the world powers. The main three plus Israel have zero respect for it, ergo we are seeing how useless it actually is now. These four nations will drive the world into another world war.

LemonJam

The US is supposedly a democracy- unlike Russia and China.

A “democracy” that is actively weakening voting rights and deploying its own military into the streets to confront its own citizens in cities that politically disagree with the administration. There are very few markers of fascism that the US doesn’t meet.

It has stood us in good stead for 70 years with the obvious exception.

We are standing on the brink imo of a law based international society v anarchy of the mighty.

Times have changed. The League of Nations was also effective at some point. No one is standing up to Trump, Russia, China, or Israel anymore. This is very scary.

We won’t need a world war to destroy the world. Once Trump starts drilling for oil in places like Greenland ( and encouraging more countries to ignore global warming) it won’t take many oil spills to damage the arctic regions. What is the point of someone devoting their lives to make themselves and their family rich beyond belief only to destroy the very world they live in?

Smileless2012

^Now Trump is threatening a NATO country^ of course he is, he'll do whatever he likes because no one is prepared to stand up to him.

I'm pretty sure Canada and Denmark, and the rest of the EU, will stand up to any US designs on taking over Canada and Greenland.

Trump is authoritarian and moving the US away from democracy imo.

MayBee70

We won’t need a world war to destroy the world. Once Trump starts drilling for oil in places like Greenland ( and encouraging more countries to ignore global warming) it won’t take many oil spills to damage the arctic regions. What is the point of someone devoting their lives to make themselves and their family rich beyond belief only to destroy the very world they live in?

Indeed. it is beyond my understanding, as the poor in the US are faring badly and it will get worse.

I think he'll be taken down from within by elections, actually, just how soon is the problem, as he is taking welfare systems apart and more people are behaving as in an anarchy. Last night late on R4 there was a programme on some rich "Christian Nationalists" who are buying up whole chunks of land around a small town and they intend to run it as a mini state within a state - tough for anyone who happens to live there, I reckon they will sell out and move, for the values are "kinder, kuche, Kirche" as regards women, girl children - they are already in a position where they can wreck the local economy once the size of their group doubles, and can you imagine what the schools will be like as regards the curriculum, and their plans for voting are "one per household" - ie the man.

I think the idea of international law is complete fiction. It is like some epic game of lets pretend. Who do people think will enforce international law and when will they start.

Smileless2012

^Now Trump is threatening a NATO country^ of course he is, he'll do whatever he likes because no one is prepared to stand up to him.

Agreed

MayBee70

We won’t need a world war to destroy the world. Once Trump starts drilling for oil in places like Greenland ( and encouraging more countries to ignore global warming) it won’t take many oil spills to damage the arctic regions. What is the point of someone devoting their lives to make themselves and their family rich beyond belief only to destroy the very world they live in?

I really don’t think the good people of both Greenland and Denmark will roll over and allow this to happen and Carney in Canada has already made his distain for Trump very very clear!

What we need are more strong, solid world leaders to tell Trump it’s over and for his own govt to take a very hard long look at themselves and him!

Galaxy

I think the idea of international law is complete fiction. It is like some epic game of lets pretend. Who do people think will enforce international law and when will they start.

I agree.