Yesterday there was a very tragic shooting of a woman leaving the scene of an Immigration raid/incident . The video clips are very disturbing as she is shot and killed by an officer after she was given conflicting information by two officers . One who told her to leave and another who told her to get out of the car.
She was killed by a third officer who was to the side of the car . I can only advise you not to watch the clip if you feel it might be disturbing . I was able to read a good account of it in the NYT and it definitely looks and reads like she was murdered.
She was a white, US citizen not a target of the raid.
I truly feel like the USA is imploding from the inside out and that Trump is creating fires of danger everywhere.
Yes elegran I do agree that the presence of a police force does inhibit ICE’s worst excesses.
The problem with the twin cities is that ICE has flooded the area to the extent that they outnumber the police by a considerable number and the restraining factor is not there.
Elegran
Perhaps the presence of the police force inhibits the most impulsive acts of ice agents? Or they concentrate on the "catching illegal immigrants" part of the job, and leave dealing with protestors and observers to the police, who have more experience in that, and longer and more in-depth training in keeping their cool under stress.
Possibly a bit of both, and of course the effect that being police around where the protesters are has a sobering effect on them so they don’t even try and obstruct.
All they want to do is to catch illegal immigrants, but it makes it so much harder if they have to deal with a crowd as well.
WWM2 8.46- good post.
Elegran 11.36- I agree- keeping cool under stress and appropriate training are critical for officers who carry guns as deadly weapons. Officers carrying deadly weapons need to have the training, skills and emotional stability to be able to make effective quick determinations about threat levels. They need to act and comply within the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) policy on the use of deadly force.
Under DHS policy, agents are authorised to use deadly force if they believe they are at risk of death, imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm. DHS policy has a specific clause that states officers can not fire at a moving vehicle unless someone in the car is threatening the officer or unless the vehicle is "operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury" AND "no other objectively reasonable means of defence appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle". The incident investigation- hopefully will explore and determine these issues.
Even if officials investigating determine Ross's shot first against Good was justified , objectively it will be harder to justify the second and third shots Ross fired as Good's vehicle pulled away from him.
The DHS has a shooting review board. The DHS Secretary said on public record the shooting was justified, the POTUS and VP have also publicly stated it was justified and VP- all in the immediate aftermath of the deadly shots, with incorrect factual elements and before investigation had started. The DHS shooting board is going to be hard pressed to look at the facts in isolation in those circumstances.
I read the CNN news article link in 2.28 post re Illinois and Minnesota separately fling lawsuits on Monday this week over immigration enforcement they call "unlawful and unconstitutional". The District judge decided not to issue a temporary restraining order to Minnesota but said her decision should "not be considered a pre judgement". She highlighted this lawsuit presents 'somewhat frontier issues in constitutional law".
As the CNN legal advisor outlined, whatever the lawsuits' chance of success, large or small, in uncharted circumstances without legal precedence, it is realistic to hope the judges who will hear the cases when they come to court will put ICE through its paces, calling witnesses, officials as witnesses, probes into ICE's training, policies and tactics and issues some sort of declaration that ICE needs to do things differently or better.
In all the circumstances we should not have to wait too long for these cases to come to court. Will be interesting to see how that dynamic plays out alongside DHS shooting board pronouncements.
I acidentally came across this link to the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Online Detainee Locator System, where anyone can find out where a specific detainee is being kept. locator.ice.gov/odls/#/search
It could be useful passed on to anyone with an immigrant friend or relative in the US who cannot be contacted or may have been taken by ICE.
There is also a list of Detention Centres, with their addresses and photographs, at www.ice.gov/detention-facilities It also has "About us" pages, and information about Immigration Enforcement and Combating Transnational Crime.
Starfire57
Well I saw a report that the states that are having their police force backing up ICE are simply not having all these problems Minneapolis is. Perhaps the leaders should be blamed for all this as well.
Perhaps the police are keeping ICE in line?
Elegran
Perhaps the presence of the police force inhibits the most impulsive acts of ice agents? Or they concentrate on the "catching illegal immigrants" part of the job, and leave dealing with protestors and observers to the police, who have more experience in that, and longer and more in-depth training in keeping their cool under stress.
I think it's the latter. Without having to deal with protesters yelling at them, throwing things, getting in their way, obstructing, they can actually just do the job and leave.
DaisyAnneReturns
Starfire57
Well I saw a report that the states that are having their police force backing up ICE are simply not having all these problems Minneapolis is. Perhaps the leaders should be blamed for all this as well.
Perhaps the police are keeping ICE in line?
I doubt that. Federal has jurisdiction over State.
But, with police dealing with the protesters, ICE doesn't have to, can do their job and get out of there quickly vs. fighting off screaming crowds throwing things, getting in their way (obstruction) and attacking them with shovels.
I have seen local leaders in those states saying they were supporting ICE, not the opposite.
Did anyone see the video of the Florida Police Chief's warnings to protestors???? That dude isn't messing around.
Starfire57
Did anyone see the video of the Florida Police Chief's warnings to protestors???? That dude isn't messing around.
He should stick to eating pies. 🤬 He’s obviously had a lot of practice.
petra
Starfire57
Did anyone see the video of the Florida Police Chief's warnings to protestors???? That dude isn't messing around.
He should stick to eating pies. 🤬 He’s obviously had a lot of practice.
Fat shaming? Ooh that's in bad taste.
imaround
That is sad, doubtful that girl would have been any problem to stay here, but, as the article first states: "Lopez Belloza and her mother were ordered deported several years after arriving in the United States."
So they entered illegally and were ordered to leave. They ignored that order, ignored the law twice then.
I mean, ok, she's not a gang member or anything. But why would she be allowed to ignore a court judgement yet others have to abide by the laws of the country everyday?
Her appeal was denied in 2017 so not sure how this is relevant to what is happening today in the raids.
See, here is the real problem we are facing, and what ICE is trying to get rid of, if people would just let them.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/latin-kings-gangbanger-stole-fbi-weaponry-thanks-to-anti-ice-riot-chaos-feds-say/ar-AA1UmlPO?ocid=msedgntp&pc=SMTS&cvid=696ac6ad8c8b458db6efb5a30e623dd2&ei=15
There was a court order to not remove her. Before she was moved to Texas.
imaround
There was a court order to not remove her. Before she was moved to Texas.
Clearly the state judge could not override an order for deportation.
I mean, sometimes there is a way to reverse it through a process but the process may have not been done correctly. This article gives no details of the process she went through other than the initial deportation orders and the later appeal that was denied.
I would think if the state judge order stood, her appeal would not have been denied. So, somethings not right.
Suffice to say, entering the country illegally has it's risks. Nobody from another country is guaranted the right to become a citizen or stay in the country just because they want to or think they are entitled to.
I recall too, during Trumps first term, he was ready and willing to continue what we called the Dreamers bill, to allow a special citizenship track for those who were just children when their parents decided to bring them in illegally.
I personally was all for that, they were innocent. But Congress at the time (majority Democrat) didn't want to abide by the one condition, which was more money allocated to continue to secure the border.
I'll never forget my disappointment with the party I then supported for putting their politics before those kids.....
That was one of the last straws for me, among many other straws....
Actually a court can, in fact, override federal officers. That is what courts are for. There are federal judges in Minnesota too.
I posted those links for others who are still making opinions. Yours is already apparent. I have absolutely no desire to converse with you further. Have a nice day.
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