Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Trump is always threatening to do something.It would be interesting to see how many of these threats have been acted upon.

Syracute- I read that Joe Rogan, the biggest podcaster in US by most metrics- who endorsed Trump in 2024 election- compared ICE immigration raids to “Gestapo Operations” earlier this week.

Given Rogan’s cultural status and evidence in general that Americans appear to be turning against Trump’s hardline anti immigration efforts ( e.g Pew Research Center survey of US adults October 2925) , what impact if any do you see Rogan’s podcast comments on Trump escalating his anti immigrations efforts is having? Eg podcast impact versus media outlets versus White House Comms?

If he invokes insurrection, will that affect the mid terms? Bit early I suppose, but it may provoke even more protests.

What a mess.

ICE is being described as Gestapo by a number of commentators.

This is something to think about. Is America “moving toward” totalitarianism?

Historians and political scientists usually avoid yes/no answers and instead ask:

Are constraints on power weakening?
Are norms being replaced by loyalty tests?
Are certain groups being dehumanised or excluded from legal protection?
Are emergency powers being normalised?

We will all have different answers but I suggest that those supporting the current state of affairs keep asking themselves these questions.

Well, I doubt many here will care, but I did find the statistics on illegal alien convictions by year of various crimes. When I looked at the charts, it seems they went down quite a bit during the period of 2018-2020, which would reflect less crime, less convictions. This was during Trumps first period of getting tough on the border after he was elected.

I noticed also, a very significant increase of convictions from 2021-24, during Bidens term, which logically indicates more crime, thus more arrests and convictions.

Now the charts show in 2025, another great reduction. Is it a coincidence that when Trump is in office, illegal crime arrests convictions go down? Doubtful, it's not coincidence because he is getting rid of the source!

It will be interesting how 2026 plays out in those stats.

I don't think people realize how we have been infiltrated by these gangs and mafia coming in, from many countries, using the Mexican border as the way in. All they pay attention to is the news media hysteria and that they happen to live in a better area where the crime hasn't taken over yet.

But the more observant understand how close we were to having a third world here in the US and again, I do believe that was the mandate Trump was talking about when he got elected, to which even I was oblivious to and that's why I didn't bother voting for him, nor Karmela, because I didn't have faith anyone would fix anything. But I think I was wrong about that.

www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-alien-statistics

Just to add, obviously the Trump trend starting in 2017-20 continued into Biden's first year in 2020 but took a sharp turn after that year in 2021, but in Trumps first year 2025 he turned it around very quickly.

Now if anyone notices, 2017, when Trump took over from Obama, wasn't bad, at all. In fact, some of the stats were better than 2025 in some of the crime catagories.

That is a testament to Obama, who actually did do a decent job at the border himself! Biden is the one who messed it all up.

Could he actually stop the midterms?
Claim the country is at war?

I noticed also, a very significant increase of convictions from 2021-24, during Bidens term, which logically indicates more crime, thus more arrests and convictions. (Starfire57 Thu 15-Jan-26 20:52:54)

The statistics show an increase in convictions during that time, but concluding that this “logically indicates more crime” assumes causation. Convictions can rise due to enforcement, prosecution, or reporting changes, even if crime rates stay flat or fall. Without controlling for those factors, the data shows correlation, not causation.

*Example, if ice cream sales and drownings both increase in summer, it wouldn’t be logical to conclude that ice cream causes drowning.

As scientists say, 'Correlation does not indicate causation.'

The first part of this episode of "Private Eye" updates is a view of this case. (It's the first third of the video. )

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V59br2CBgJ0

Maremia

As scientists say, 'Correlation does not indicate causation.'

My father taught me this when I was very young Maremia. He was in the RAF and the growth of what was called "Operational Research" during the war meant the RAF was one of the central institutions driving the expantion in the number of statisticians.

He taught those new to the post-war professionalisation of the field. That meant he taught them that "correlation isn't causation". He told me he did it by showing the that the rise in suicides was equal to the rise in the cost of radio licenses over the same period. (Yes, it was that long ago). It's not something you forget!

DaisyAnneReturns

Maremia

As scientists say, 'Correlation does not indicate causation.'

My father taught me this when I was very young Maremia. He was in the RAF and the growth of what was called "Operational Research" during the war meant the RAF was one of the central institutions driving the expantion in the number of statisticians.

He taught those new to the post-war professionalisation of the field. That meant he taught them that "correlation isn't causation". He told me he did it by showing the that the rise in suicides was equal to the rise in the cost of radio licenses over the same period. (Yes, it was that long ago). It's not something you forget!

Yes, I realize correlation does not indicate causation.

But, doesn't many a scientific theory depend on correlation?
I think those stats are something to think about, among other evidence out there.

Scientific theory is regarded sometimes as fact though, even when it shouldn't be. One example, the Chemical Imbalance theory has people taking drugs when there isn't one valid, physical test for levels of physical brain chemicals. Unlike diabetes, high blood pressure, etc, which all have physical tests. Yet the majority people treat this theory as causational fact.

Stats are a different thing, mainly a pattern and the pattern to me in those charts say something.

You know, I was watching another video of the shooting and realized, beforehand he was standing to the right side of her vehicle, not directly in front of her......so when she started to turn her wheels right, it lined her up with him at the beginning, before the arc continued.

Now that may have surprised him and caused the reaction. That also may show that she was trying to turn away from the guys on her left side while not realizing the agent was in front of her on the right side of the hood.

Not all videos show this clearly, but the one I saw did. I still think this was not an intentional act of running over an ICE agent nor a want of an ICE agent to murder someone.

This was clearly a terrible accident.

Maremia

Could he actually stop the midterms?
Claim the country is at war?

There are no existing laws that allow that executive power.

Even if there were, it wouldn't be wise....because the gathered predictions I read online show the Republicans still in favor of maintaining their lead in the House and Senate, although its a long while until November.

That's another thing that bugs me about Trump, is his constant musing about things he knows he can't do, like he's thinking about something he'd like to do, just to get a rise out of democrats....I guess it's his form of revenge or bullying. Or look at me now, I kicked your butts after you tried to destroy me, so watch out kinda thing? Idk.

“As far as this latest event, I can't speak for intentions, but it did look like the ICE officer panicked when she was driving straight for him and just opened fire. It almost looks like after he fired the first shots , she swerved the car to the right and then continued until the crash into other cars.

Why she just didn't get out of the car, who knows. Contrary to popular media, legal citizens are not being arrested.

Sometimes someone may be taken in for questioning and released. I hear about this all the time on local news and message boards; people complain while others say it's necessary to get to the criminals.

There have been many protests, some peaceful, but I've also seen those who will try to get physical, and obstruct both officers, ICE and regular citizens on streets.

They risk themselves and others”
So, after numerous posts trying to convince us otherwise you’ve finally admitted that the poor woman wasn’t at fault. But it’s still an ‘accident, not what is imo murder.

MayBee70

“As far as this latest event, I can't speak for intentions, but it did look like the ICE officer panicked when she was driving straight for him and just opened fire. It almost looks like after he fired the first shots , she swerved the car to the right and then continued until the crash into other cars.

Why she just didn't get out of the car, who knows. Contrary to popular media, legal citizens are not being arrested.

Sometimes someone may be taken in for questioning and released. I hear about this all the time on local news and message boards; people complain while others say it's necessary to get to the criminals.

There have been many protests, some peaceful, but I've also seen those who will try to get physical, and obstruct both officers, ICE and regular citizens on streets.

They risk themselves and others”
So, after numerous posts trying to convince us otherwise you’ve finally admitted that the poor woman wasn’t at fault. But it’s still an ‘accident, not what is imo murder.

I do not recall saying it's her fault. Only that, people should cooperate with law enforcement to avoid this sort of thing.

If that's blame, so be it but it's the truth, she could have avoided this by simply cooperating.

Most of my posts were convincing people that we need this illegal immigration problem dealt with, as it is being done. And that it is within the law, the powers of the federal government.

Well, while I'm here, want to share a former federal prosectors take on the lawsuits that the states will be trying to do against Trump and the fed for the raids.

www.yahoo.com/news/articles/illinois-minnesota-lawsuits-against-trump-090059079.html

Maremia

Could he actually stop the midterms?
Claim the country is at war?

Well, that seems to be an opinion I’ve seen. I don’t know the legality of it though. Must have a look.

Starfire57

You know, I was watching another video of the shooting and realized, beforehand he was standing to the right side of her vehicle, not directly in front of her......so when she started to turn her wheels right, it lined her up with him at the beginning, before the arc continued.

Now that may have surprised him and caused the reaction. That also may show that she was trying to turn away from the guys on her left side while not realizing the agent was in front of her on the right side of the hood.

Not all videos show this clearly, but the one I saw did. I still think this was not an intentional act of running over an ICE agent nor a want of an ICE agent to murder someone.

This was clearly a terrible accident.

I totally agree.It was an accident on the drivers part am sure, but the ICE officer, in that split second wouldn’t have been thinking that.We can all agree it was a tragic mistake all round.

Trump seems to think he can stop the mid-terms - that, of course, doesn’t mean he legally can.

This Daily Voice

Donald Trump suggested canceling the midterm elections and threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act in Minneapolis as nationwide outrage grows over his mass deportation efforts.

Trump floated the idea of not having midterms in an interview with Reuters on Thursday, Jan. 15. The comment echoes what he told House GOP members earlier in January, warning that he believes he would be impeached if Republicans don't retain control of Congress.

Midterm elections typically end poorly for the party in power, with Democrats retaking the House majority by winning 235 seats during Trump's first term in 2018.

"It's some deep psychological thing, but when you win the presidency, you don't win the midterms,” Trump told Reuters.

Trump then argued that midterms were unnecessary because he has "accomplished so much."

Oreo

Starfire57

You know, I was watching another video of the shooting and realized, beforehand he was standing to the right side of her vehicle, not directly in front of her......so when she started to turn her wheels right, it lined her up with him at the beginning, before the arc continued.

Now that may have surprised him and caused the reaction. That also may show that she was trying to turn away from the guys on her left side while not realizing the agent was in front of her on the right side of the hood.

Not all videos show this clearly, but the one I saw did. I still think this was not an intentional act of running over an ICE agent nor a want of an ICE agent to murder someone.

This was clearly a terrible accident.

I totally agree.It was an accident on the drivers part am sure, but the ICE officer, in that split second wouldn’t have been thinking that.We can all agree it was a tragic mistake all round.

I watched that very detailed video on CNN. That’s exactly what happened 😥

The US has a huge illegal immigrant problem as do we here in the UK and the rest of Europe no doubt.If it isn’t cracked down on it will continue getting worse and worse.In my view all the governments of the countries have a duty to try and stop it and come down hard on this problem.
As far as the US is concerned, since so many carry guns, both those in authority and citizens and illegal immigrants all being capable of having them then it adds a more dangerous dimension to the whole thing.Immigration officers there have been attacked so nerves will be high on the streets where they operate and then add the factor that they can be surrounded by a heckling crowd and obstruction as well.

So looking further into the possibility of Trump calling an insurrection and using the military on the suburban streets of the USA.

A couple of thoughts.

The pentagon is apparently feeling very queasy about the use of troops.

Trump failed to call an insurrection on Jan6th, at a time of an attempted coup.

A senior Lecturer at Harvard has written an “explainer”

Q: What is the Insurrection Act?
The Insurrection Act is authorized by the insurrection provision of the Constitution, which basically says the president can call forth the militia in an insurrection. But insurrection is not defined.

The act itself tries to define the term, but its language is not clear because civil unrest, an inability to execute the law, is very, very vague.

What people need to understand is that it is used to get around the Posse Comitatus Act passed after the Civil War, which prohibits the military from being utilized for law enforcement purposes.

The Posse Comitatus Act says if you use the military in the United States for, say, a disaster, they cannot have law enforcement functions. They essentially cannot arrest.

The Insurrection Act basically says the president can use the military for law enforcement purposes. That is a use of the military that has never been part of the way we think about ourselves.

Q: How has the Insurrection Act been used before?
Since its inception, fifteen presidents have used it. In modern times, presidents used it during the civil rights era when governors in some states were ignoring the Supreme Court rulings on desegregation. It was used again in 1992 to quell riots following the Rodney King verdict, at the request of California Governor Pete Wilson.

During Hurricane Katrina, again the governor of Louisiana asked. Interestingly enough, President Bush did not invoke the Insurrection Act. He believed the military was better suited in its support function, rather than overwhelming civil society.

It is important to understand that it has been used, but presidents have used it in very different circumstances than the way Trump is thinking. If Hurricane Katrina is your benchmark for deployment, then the perception of rising crime rates in New York, Boston, or Los Angeles doesn’t meet the mark.

Q: How is this administration thinking about the Insurrection Act?
My understanding is that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth would be prepared to deploy the military, as a law enforcement entity, in a number of cities, most of them in blue states, where there is a perception of high crime. President Trump campaigned on lower crime in our cities.

There is a sentiment in the Pentagon that employees are nervous because they were raised not to go to war with us, with civilians. That’s how they are trained. That is how they understand the mission.

And I want to clear about this: the military is totally integrated in supporting communities when they need them. Whether it was Hurricane Katrina or during an Olympics, they are there. The idea that their vast resources aren’t used is a misunderstanding of how the local, state, and federal capacity is aligned.

What we saw with the National Guard in D.C. illustrated this. An insurrection means state government can’t work; that’s the way it is defined in the Insurrection Act. And yet federal troops were deployed, and what did they do? They picked up trash. It is so expensive to deploy the military in this way. There is now a sense that this expansive definition of an insurrection could extend to the mid-term elections, where this administration can deploy the military to cities simply to intimidate voting.

This president would use the Insurrection Act in a disruptive and antagonistic way against communities and local leadership.

Q: The riot at the Capitol on January 6 has been called an insurrection. Why do you think it wasn’t invoked then when Trump was president?
He did not invoke it, and we now know from the January 6th commission, that he spent hours talking about the riots on social media before he was finally convinced to address them. Now we have seen him give pardons to people convicted during the insurrection. It is clear; he believes an insurrection only exists if it prevents his retention of power.

When I look at what makes American democracy unique, it our constitutional structure that has a clear division between civilian authorities and military authorities.

Trump’s casual invocation of the Insurrection Act is very unique for a number of reasons. Under no circumstances could you call the crime rate in our cities an “insurrection” as it is understood in the Insurrection Act. He uses it to assert executive power over states, against the consent of a governor.

We have a president who wants to use the military as an extension of law enforcement. That’s a significant change. And we should be wary about this sort of casualness in which he disrupts that constitutional order.

Juliette Keyyem

Well I saw a report that the states that are having their police force backing up ICE are simply not having all these problems Minneapolis is. Perhaps the leaders should be blamed for all this as well.

Perhaps the presence of the police force inhibits the most impulsive acts of ice agents? Or they concentrate on the "catching illegal immigrants" part of the job, and leave dealing with protestors and observers to the police, who have more experience in that, and longer and more in-depth training in keeping their cool under stress.