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Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota
(985 Posts)Yesterday there was a very tragic shooting of a woman leaving the scene of an Immigration raid/incident . The video clips are very disturbing as she is shot and killed by an officer after she was given conflicting information by two officers . One who told her to leave and another who told her to get out of the car.
She was killed by a third officer who was to the side of the car . I can only advise you not to watch the clip if you feel it might be disturbing . I was able to read a good account of it in the NYT and it definitely looks and reads like she was murdered.
She was a white, US citizen not a target of the raid.
I truly feel like the USA is imploding from the inside out and that Trump is creating fires of danger everywhere.
This citizen was held for 3 days.
ij.org/case/george-retes-federal-officer-accountability/
Here is the report from Congress that says immigrants without criminal histories are now the largest group in detention.
www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118692/documents/HMKP-119-JU00-20251118-SD001.pdf
Well if the DHS says it isn't happening, then it must be true. Despite evidence to the contrary from countless sources. 
Starfire57
And detaining is much different than being arrested. People are claiming being arrested. The hearsay and misinformation out there is astounding.
Your problem is that there is so much out there on SM that witnesses ICE activities that we can see makes denying what they do a complete losers game.
I listened to Vance yesterday. I have never heard such nonsense, the man makes things up as he goes along just as he does when he comes to Europe and tries to tell us that we lack freedom of speech etc. He is either totally ignorant or a liar.
I just looked up Visa Verge as I had never heard about it before. It looks to be a for profit group that helps immigrants come to the United States. Of course they are going to regurgitate what DHS says.
There is legal proof, in courts, that Citizens have been detained despite having valid proof of citizenship on their person at the time of arrest.
Starfire57
Interesting thread here. Anyone actually live in the US? I do.
The illegal immigration problem has been around for a lot of years and especially in border states. I have seen on local news, the gangs, farmers getting shot by Mexican cartels in Texas, etc.
My particular state, before these new crackdowns, has had shootings by gangs, stabbings, drugs, etc. We learn to avoid certain areas with known gang activity whenever possible.
Local news, local police constantly busting gang related activities. Lots of drug and guns busts.
In the city next to mine, awhile back, reports of capturing leaders of cutthroat Mexican gangs. I mean, huge busts of leaders and the guns, drugs, etc.
Knowing they had caught one particular kingpin a few years ago in a city right next to mine was very unsettling; glad he was caught but knowing he was right next door so to speak was scary.
Local city police would show the busts in the media.
But lately, since they've cracked down, it seems a lot less reports crime from the gangs.
Some of the Mexicans here , thought, are very nice; many came legally. Others think they need to "take back" our western states, that they were "stolen" from Mexico.
But truth is, after the Mexican-American War, the Treaty of Hildalgo-Guadalupe showed that the US bought and paid Mexico for the states; also forgave any debts and allowed anyone who was Mexican instant citizenship if they wanted to stay.
Yet the claims still persist.
But, have definitely seen improvements since the crackdowns.
Before that I wondered if we should consider moving elsewhere.
As far as this latest event, I can't speak for intentions, but it did look like the ICE officer panicked when she was driving straight for him and just opened fire. It almost looks like after he fired the first shots , she swerved the car to the right and then continued until the crash into other cars.
Why she just didn't get out of the car, who knows. Contrary to popular media, legal citizens are not being arrested.
Sometimes someone may be taken in for questioning and released. I hear about this all the time on local news and message boards; people complain while others say it's necessary to get to the criminals.
There have been many protests, some peaceful, but I've also seen those who will try to get physical, and obstruct both officers, ICE and regular citizens on streets.
They risk themselves and others.
Would be nice if you named either the "city you live in" or "the state" so we can verify your claims independently.
imaround
Well if the DHS says it isn't happening, then it must be true. Despite evidence to the contrary from countless sources.
Oh sure, I'll believe some media outlet trying to make money on stories instead.....
imaround
I just looked up Visa Verge as I had never heard about it before. It looks to be a for profit group that helps immigrants come to the United States. Of course they are going to regurgitate what DHS says.
There is legal proof, in courts, that Citizens have been detained despite having valid proof of citizenship on their person at the time of arrest.
Again....do you understand the difference between being detained and being arrested? Many of these agents have warrants, but, look up something called probable cause while you are at it. Nothing is being done "illegally " by ICE, as you put it.
Thing is this, though, if states (especially sanctuary states) are not doing the job, and we can't have ICE either, then what is the answer to this issue?
Like I said, there was a very solid presence of the Mexican Mafia in a city close to me in California for many years and some got caught by local law enforcement, but not after a long time. One top notorious leader was actually caught once and scared the s...out of everyone that he was actually here.
Should the western states just wait around, with all the cut backs and defunding of the police, for local law enforcement to find all these dangerous guys or maybe if we actually stopped all this at the border, maybe it wouldn't even be an issue?
Stricter borders policy, no letting people just get away with coming here illegally, is a place to start. It's called the sovereignty of a nation. Pretty normal stuff for a civilized country.
Past administrations allowed this to go on too long and now we have a big problem because despite the efforts, yes, some people will be caught in the middle at times.
Problem I see here is that there are a lot of entitled people these days. They feel they cannot be touched, spoken to or approached in any way by the law or even anyone, because of their rights, gender, color, etc.
The very act of an officer coming up and asking for ID gets some people pi'ed off. It's as though they are not allowed to do their job anymore, as to not offend someone.
So now the gloves are off. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, it's a shame people have to worry, but at least some action is being taken now.
Ran across a still picture on the internet for anyone who wonders about the shooting. Looks like at the time of the fatal shot (first one) tires were pointed ahead towards the officer. They turned after.
Could he have just gotten out of the way. She made contact in other video angles, but didn't run him over. It's easy to say yes he could, from our comfortable chairs at home. Maybe. Maybe not.
Although we will never really know, I do not think she intended to run him over nor he intended to murder her.
I think it was a fearful situation for all, something that should not have escalated like it did.
It's a tragedy that could have been avoided, had she not been obstructing or if she had just got out of the car...being arrested for obstructing would have been better than being shot in the head, I think everyone can agree on that.
I understand the difference quite well. I also understand the difference between an administrative warrant and a judicial warrant.
And here is ICE agents in Minneapolis detaining the very scary, checks notes, Target worker.
www.kare11.com/article/news/local/ice-in-minnesota/federal-agents-richfield-target/89-074f28c7-c04f-4392-9165-08ca304b0f39
starfire57 what you appear not to realise is that in the zUK our security forces like the police, customs etc do not carry guns as a matter of course.
Guns except for specific uses are banned in this country.
What happened to that young woman would never happen here, and for us to witness this ability for a border force employee to carry out such a murderous act is utterly shocking to a British citizen.
But even in Europe, where customs officers do carry weapons, they are used with utter restraint - in fact I doubt that anyone could point to an instant when guns were used on immigrants let alone a protester.
What is happening in your country is reminiscent of what happened in Germany during the 1930s when initially the brown shirts snd later the SS were let loose on the German public where they acted just like ICE and harassed, arrested, and killed with impunity, not just Jews, but protestors, gypsies, people of colour etc.
It was a fascist authoritarian state.
Do not think that it could not happen in your country, or indeed is not happening.
Starfire57
Ran across a still picture on the internet for anyone who wonders about the shooting. Looks like at the time of the fatal shot (first one) tires were pointed ahead towards the officer. They turned after.
Could he have just gotten out of the way. She made contact in other video angles, but didn't run him over. It's easy to say yes he could, from our comfortable chairs at home. Maybe. Maybe not.
Although we will never really know, I do not think she intended to run him over nor he intended to murder her.
I think it was a fearful situation for all, something that should not have escalated like it did.
It's a tragedy that could have been avoided, had she not been obstructing or if she had just got out of the car...being arrested for obstructing would have been better than being shot in the head, I think everyone can agree on that.
One hopes the US can achieve an open and proper formal investigation. From the point of view of the British (which is where this forum is based) any miscarriage of justice would cause great concern to many of us.
I think that the calibre of those who wish to join ICE, and the absolute lack of training given is at the root of the problem.
I don't have data, but would imagine that police officers in the USA are selected and vetted carefully before appointment, and undergo a period of training, after which they are paired with an experienced officer to continue learning.
This is the way it works in Britain, and, even then, some shocking events show that rogue officers still exist. At least we limit the carrying of firearms to certain teams.
It seems ( and I am happy to be enlightened if Iam incorrect) that volunteers for ICE are poorly vetted and inadequately trained or monitored, yet are released onto the streets with weapons: what could possibly go wrong?
This has the video of the Target employee being taken by ICE while at work.
www.reddit.com/r/law/s/sRSumTUNyN
If that policeman was hurt, how could he walk away, no stumbling. To shoot someone at close range through the head is murder. What has America become?
imaround
I understand the difference quite well. I also understand the difference between an administrative warrant and a judicial warrant.
And here is ICE agents in Minneapolis detaining the very scary, checks notes, Target worker.
www.kare11.com/article/news/local/ice-in-minnesota/federal-agents-richfield-target/89-074f28c7-c04f-4392-9165-08ca304b0f39
If you do, then you know, detaining a suspect is not against the law.
The link shows an article which does not explain why. And I suppose criminals are allowed to work at Target, so I don't see the innocence in working there as a given.
Allsorts
If that policeman was hurt, how could he walk away, no stumbling. To shoot someone at close range through the head is murder. What has America become?
Nobody said he was hurt. Idk, should he have to be run over to prove that she could have run him over? If someone is heading towards you at close range with a car, I would say that's the issue, not whether or not she succeeded.
It's a shame that people just don't get out of the car and cooperate. She may have been jailed for obstruction but be alive.
I am not saying the officer did the right thing. Nobody did if you ask me, her nor him.
Whitewavemark2
starfire57 what you appear not to realise is that in the zUK our security forces like the police, customs etc do not carry guns as a matter of course.
Guns except for specific uses are banned in this country.
What happened to that young woman would never happen here, and for us to witness this ability for a border force employee to carry out such a murderous act is utterly shocking to a British citizen.
But even in Europe, where customs officers do carry weapons, they are used with utter restraint - in fact I doubt that anyone could point to an instant when guns were used on immigrants let alone a protester.
What is happening in your country is reminiscent of what happened in Germany during the 1930s when initially the brown shirts snd later the SS were let loose on the German public where they acted just like ICE and harassed, arrested, and killed with impunity, not just Jews, but protestors, gypsies, people of colour etc.
It was a fascist authoritarian state.
Do not think that it could not happen in your country, or indeed is not happening.
I don't see the connection. Hitler was mental, hated Jewish people, wanted to control the world, make Germany the master race and country.
The US population has been demanding their own safety from foreign invaders, many who use the border to get here, for quite awhile now.
Self defense vs. wanting to wipe out an entire race/religion is the difference I see.
It's not fascism. The majority of voters in the US voted for this. That's the difference too.
Chocolatelovinggran
I think that the calibre of those who wish to join ICE, and the absolute lack of training given is at the root of the problem.
I don't have data, but would imagine that police officers in the USA are selected and vetted carefully before appointment, and undergo a period of training, after which they are paired with an experienced officer to continue learning.
This is the way it works in Britain, and, even then, some shocking events show that rogue officers still exist. At least we limit the carrying of firearms to certain teams.
It seems ( and I am happy to be enlightened if Iam incorrect) that volunteers for ICE are poorly vetted and inadequately trained or monitored, yet are released onto the streets with weapons: what could possibly go wrong?
This I agree with. Better training.
Less demonizing would also help; the police here are demonized like you would not believe. They are under a lot of pressure. They still are being killed in the line of duty.
Having body cams now has helped a lot of the unwarranted accusations of officers not upholding their lawful duties.], which may help them have less pressure, hopefully.
Many, many accusations of the actions of police have been vindicated by body cams here.
Maybe ICE needs bodycams too. Idk, that may have been helpful in this tragic case.
Again, I do not understand the resistance of people just to simply cooperate. That woman did not have to die.
When an ICE agent fires three shots into someone's face, just what are they intending?
Starfire57
Whitewavemark2
starfire57 what you appear not to realise is that in the zUK our security forces like the police, customs etc do not carry guns as a matter of course.
Guns except for specific uses are banned in this country.
What happened to that young woman would never happen here, and for us to witness this ability for a border force employee to carry out such a murderous act is utterly shocking to a British citizen.
But even in Europe, where customs officers do carry weapons, they are used with utter restraint - in fact I doubt that anyone could point to an instant when guns were used on immigrants let alone a protester.
What is happening in your country is reminiscent of what happened in Germany during the 1930s when initially the brown shirts snd later the SS were let loose on the German public where they acted just like ICE and harassed, arrested, and killed with impunity, not just Jews, but protestors, gypsies, people of colour etc.
It was a fascist authoritarian state.
Do not think that it could not happen in your country, or indeed is not happening.I don't see the connection. Hitler was mental, hated Jewish people, wanted to control the world, make Germany the master race and country.
The US population has been demanding their own safety from foreign invaders, many who use the border to get here, for quite awhile now.
Self defense vs. wanting to wipe out an entire race/religion is the difference I see.
It's not fascism. The majority of voters in the US voted for this. That's the difference too.
Well, from the European perspective, Trump certainly fills a number of the criteria.
The Brownshirts (SA) and SS actively targeted various groups, including Jewish people, Sinti and Roma, Black Germans, and other perceived "outsiders" or "racial enemies," using intimidation, violence, exclusion, and often harassing immigrants and minorities under the guise of national renewal (make America great again), the ideology of racial purity (white supremacy) underlay this.
Recognise it?
With regard to Trump, and the view from Europe
He has expansionist ambitions.
He threatens military might if he can’t get his way.
He ignores the rule of law
He is authoritarian, and bypasses Congress.
He is trashing the post war agreement which kept the world stable for so many years,
He is unreliable and no longer seen as a dependable ally.
Starfire57
Allsorts
If that policeman was hurt, how could he walk away, no stumbling. To shoot someone at close range through the head is murder. What has America become?
Nobody said he was hurt. Idk, should he have to be run over to prove that she could have run him over? If someone is heading towards you at close range with a car, I would say that's the issue, not whether or not she succeeded.
It's a shame that people just don't get out of the car and cooperate. She may have been jailed for obstruction but be alive.
I am not saying the officer did the right thing. Nobody did if you ask me, her nor him.
Trump said he was badly hurt. If I was a woman in a car with men running at me with guns I wouldn’t get out of the car…my instinct would have been to stay in my car where I felt safe. And let’s not forget it was close to where George Floyd had been murdered by a policeman.
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