West Midlands Police Scandal

Oh has he gone, that was inevitable but I am relieved.

Are you saying that all the evidence was fabricated Oreo because I don't think it was.

Good! Shamima Mahmood was right to state she no longer had any confidence in him.

He is being 'allowed to retire' after admitting evidence was fabricated

'A scathing report by Sir Andy Cooke, His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary, found the force had fabricated and retrofitted misleading intelligence, given false statements about Israeli fans, overstated claims of disorder abroad and failed to properly engage with the Jewish community'

'Officers wrongly claimed Maccabi fans had thrown people into a river, that 5,000 Dutch police were deployed at a fixture, and that hundreds of supporters had links to the IDF – none of which was supported by evidence.'

'Sir Andy said the force showed confirmation bias, inflating isolated incidents into claims that Israeli fans targeted entire Muslim communities.'

'The scandal deepened when Guildford admitted his officers had used AI-generated misinformation, including bogus social media posts about a non-existent Maccabi Tel Aviv vs West Ham match, to justify the ban'.

By agreeing to retire he will retain his pension.

Sp. Shahbana not Shahmima

It's rather worrying when police rely on AI and Facebook for "evidence".

Allira

It's rather worrying when police rely on AI and Facebook for "evidence".

It’s a good get out, isn’t it 🤷‍♀️
Wasn’t me guv.🤬

So glad he has gone. The more I read about it the more uneasy I got about the situation and was wanting him to do the decent thing and resign. It's a pity he was allowed to have his full police pension.
I didn't like the process of how he was chosen so hopefully the next one will be chosen by neutrals.

It’s interesting how little traffic this thread is generating given the importance of the subject.I realise that a lot of posters won’t enjoy being wrong about the decision made by the West Midlands police as they totally trusted their evidence and motives.I and some others never did and said so.And here we now are, vindicated in our views.What the West Midlands police did is worrying in the extreme, including their clumsy attempt to cover up and lying to Parliament and the Jewish community.

It’s interesting how little traffic this thread is generating given the importance of the subject.

Perhaps they're all busy. 🙂

Or on the shelf life of flour and cornflour thread?😜

I still think he made the right decision. And I shall be emailing the MP for Perry Bar to support him.

That doesn’t surprise me.

MayBee70

I still think he made the right decision. And I shall be emailing the MP for Perry Bar to support him.

Even though he used false information to make the decision?

I remember this, believed it was because there was proof that these fans were hooligans and the police wanted to protect the public. If this was all false then of course is only fair that heads should roll no matter how politically sensitive the situation is.
But I can easily understand why people were persuaded that there was a real threat.
There is no shame in being persuaded by the police, most of us have to put our trust in them, and here in London the Met is not much better.

I’m torn. Banning Jewish football supporters en masse? Yes, wrong, obviously. (Though that isn’t what happened, tbf. Local Jewish fans had no problem attending.)
Banning Tel Aviv Maccabi fans with a strong history of violence? Not wrong.
It’s not clear cut.

Basgetti

I’m torn. Banning Jewish football supporters en masse? Yes, wrong, obviously. (Though that isn’t what happened, tbf. Local Jewish fans had no problem attending.)
Banning Tel Aviv Maccabi fans with a strong history of violence? Not wrong.
It’s not clear cut.

Basgetti
The reason Guildford resigned is because the reasons given about the violence of Maccabi fans were untrue according to HM Inspector of Constabulary.

So who do we believe? HM Inspector of Constabulary or FB tales and AI?
I know who I would believe.
'A scathing report by Sir Andy Cooke, His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary, found the force had fabricated and retrofitted misleading intelligence, given false statements about Israeli fans, overstated claims of disorder abroad and failed to properly engage with the Jewish community'

'Officers wrongly claimed Maccabi fans had thrown people into a river, that 5,000 Dutch police were deployed at a fixture, and that hundreds of supporters had links to the IDF – none of which was supported by evidence.'

I don’t know about Israeli fans in general. I do know that I’ve seen quite a lot of footage of dreadful behaviour by Maccabi fans specifically. They seem to have a pretty awful reputation for violence at home as well as away.

I totally support English fans being banned if they cause trouble abroad, too. I knew of someone who only used to go to away games to have fights with people. They exist in all countries and the Maccabi fans have been notorious for it for ages.

Allira

MayBee70

I still think he made the right decision. And I shall be emailing the MP for Perry Bar to support him.

Even though he used false information to make the decision?

Not all of the information was false. Are you saying that Maccabi fans have never caused trouble at away matches, ever?

Allira

It's rather worrying when police rely on AI and Facebook for "evidence".

Absolutely!
I don't know if you're aware the Employment Tribunal judge in the case of Sandy Peggie against NHSFife used AI in his judgement, much which has been shown to be made up, including false legal precedents. The appeal is pending and his reputation is shot to pieces.

MayBee70

Allira

MayBee70

I still think he made the right decision. And I shall be emailing the MP for Perry Bar to support him.

Even though he used false information to make the decision?

Not all of the information was false. Are you saying that Maccabi fans have never caused trouble at away matches, ever?

When you have to 'gild the lily' to justify your stance, then your stance wasn't exactly 'rock solid' to begin with.

So you are also denying that Maccabi fans have a history of violence at football matches?

No, not at all, but does that really justify using false/made up evidence? How about if somebody used false evidence against you or someone you cared about to 'bolster' their case? Either there was sufficient real evidence or there wasn't. I do suspect antisemitism and fear of violence against a 'Jewish' team played its part.