West Midlands Police Scandal

MayBee70 are you saying using lies to justify your action is OK?

It is a lie to pretend that Maccabi fans have never gone out of their way to cause trouble. The end result ie the ban was the right one imo. If they had come here and caused trouble I'm sure that any protesters or muslims in the area would have been totally blamed for it.

Time and time again, a member of the policing services takes the option of taking immediate retirement - with full pension - before they can be held to account.

Seems to happen every day.

Local members of the Muslim community in that area told the police they were going to arm themselves to go after Maccabi fans, and the police didn’t disclose that fact.Police say now that they used AI and SM to garner evidence about Maccabi fans in Amsterdam citing what Dutch police said, when in fact Dutch police said the football boot was on the other foot and it was local Muslim men who were sent to jail for vicious attacks on Israeli fans.The cited violent West Ham match never even took place.Need I go on?
There are only two reasons for anyone to continue to say that Guildford did the right thing, Pro Palestine supporters who don’t want supporters of an Israeli football club to be allowed here at any price and those who don’t enjoy being proved wrong about that decision.I suppose a third reason would be that people simply haven’t read fully about the facts and have only seen a minute or two on tv about it.
It was an absolute disgrace and he should have been sacked and not just to retire, but at least he has retired with everyone knowing that the whole thing was a lying cover up.

Oreo 👏👏👏

I think we just need to understand the new rules.
Daily Mail - tells lies = very bad thing.
BBC and anyone else who is on the 'right side' tells lies = completely justified.
People need to understand the new morality.

MayBee70

It is a lie to pretend that Maccabi fans have never gone out of their way to cause trouble. The end result ie the ban was the right one imo. If they had come here and caused trouble I'm sure that any protesters or muslims in the area would have been totally blamed for it.

And from the evidence we see now , protesters and Muslim men from that area would have been to blame for it!
Guildford built a misleading case for banning Maccabi fans by saying it was locals at risk when in fact it would have been the fans at risk.
He could now face a conduct probe despite retiring and quite rightly.
We need to believe the police, and particularly the Chief of any force and in this case we can’t which brings a shadow over every force in the country sadly.

Galaxy 😬😁

Galaxy

I think we just need to understand the new rules.
Daily Mail - tells lies = very bad thing.
BBC and anyone else who is on the 'right side' tells lies = completely justified.
People need to understand the new morality.

What does this have to do with the thread.? Neither the DM or tge BBC has been mentioned.

What is surely more pertinent is the reliance on AI by law officers and the legal profession. It is renowned for ‘hallucinating’ (making things up); references and citations must be rigorously checked.

I understand your frustration Oreo, in light of false information it was wrong to ban the fans of this football match.
But false information, or information vastly exaggerated on social media is not a one way road. You cite members of the Muslim community threatening to arm themselves. How can you be sure this is accurate in light of the false information given about the football fans, which I admit was pretty convincing at the time.
I really don’t think anyone can be sure now of the actual truth of the matter. But you should be satisfied that a senior member of staff in the Midlands police force has been sacked as a result of it.
As to any further speculation based upon what could turn out to be false information, I think we should stop this and let this matter rest now, there has been far too much racial and political sensitivity already.

Oreo

Local members of the Muslim community in that area told the police they were going to arm themselves to go after Maccabi fans, and the police didn’t disclose that fact.Police say now that they used AI and SM to garner evidence about Maccabi fans in Amsterdam citing what Dutch police said, when in fact Dutch police said the football boot was on the other foot and it was local Muslim men who were sent to jail for vicious attacks on Israeli fans.The cited violent West Ham match never even took place.Need I go on?
There are only two reasons for anyone to continue to say that Guildford did the right thing, Pro Palestine supporters who don’t want supporters of an Israeli football club to be allowed here at any price and those who don’t enjoy being proved wrong about that decision.I suppose a third reason would be that people simply haven’t read fully about the facts and have only seen a minute or two on tv about it.
It was an absolute disgrace and he should have been sacked and not just to retire, but at least he has retired with everyone knowing that the whole thing was a lying cover up.

Oreo, thanks for starting this discussion and your post at 08.12 today.

It’s a relief to see the government pushing Guildford into resigning.

It is the excusing of the lies that concerns me Maizie, it was apparent on the BBC threads and I think there is some excusing of the police behaviour in this case. Either truth and standards of behaviour within organisations are important or they are not.

I think we should stop this and let this matter rest now, there has been far too much racial and political sensitivity already.

Wise words, Fallingstar

👏👏👏👏

Oh yes, let’s brush this under the carpet if it makes anyone feel uncomfortable.
FallingStar the police have admitted that they knew about locals going to arm themselves, they were actually told so, nothing to do with SM in that case.
After Hillsborough and all the lying, obfuscation and false blame on fans, it took the police a long time to get over that and try and restore public confidence and now this…

Fallingstar I agree with you.

Thank you Iam64 it’s a really important matter, and not just about a football match as some seem to believe.
It’s about having trust in what the Chief of a large police force says.

Oreo it's wrong to bring Hillsborough into this. So many people died there and it's nothing like what happened with maccabi fans.

To anyone who thinks we shouldn’t talk about something of great importance in the news, let me ask you this… ask yourself why ?

AGAA4

Oreo it's wrong to bring Hillsborough into this. So many people died there and it's nothing like what happened with maccabi fans.

It was a huge breach of trust just as this matter is, and if you can’t see that there’s no hope.

Oreo, you can’t trust that the Midlands police had concrete evidence from assured sources regarding the Muslim community if it turns out their intel regarding the football fans was untrustworthy/false.
Imho any information regarding that event seems highly suspect and I wouldn’t trust anything regarding it.
Certainly I imagine those from either side of this highly inflammatory incident will stick to their guns regarding untoward information about the side they seek to demonise. Balance is always important.

There was a match between the two maccabi sides which had to be called off because of violence from the fans so trying to say there were no worries about maccabi fans is wrong.

And what about all the lies Fallingstar what do you think about those?
I should be satisfied that a senior police officer has been sacked should I? Actually he wasn’t sacked, tho he should have been.
There should have been balance but there wasn’t, it was all one sided against the Israeli supporters, and the population fed a load of misleading pap.

AGAA4

There was a match between the two maccabi sides which had to be called off because of violence from the fans so trying to say there were no worries about maccabi fans is wrong.

I did expect a lot of pushback from posters who are unhappy about this, as they supported the ban entirely.However in the light of all the evidence against the West Midlands force and Craig Guildford in particular, what the government think about him and his resignation, I hoped that people would be shocked.Many are, but not all it seems.

MayBee70

It is a lie to pretend that Maccabi fans have never gone out of their way to cause trouble. The end result ie the ban was the right one imo. If they had come here and caused trouble I'm sure that any protesters or muslims in the area would have been totally blamed for it.

Can you link to where any poster has pretended Maccabi fans have never caused trouble? Otherwise you're just making things up too.

Like Oreo I'd expect people to be shocked that a senior police officer knowingly concealed the truth to justify a decision he'd made. He has not been sacked, he has retired with no loss of pension. Had he been sacked his pension would have been impacted, so no punishment at all.

The end result ie the ban was the right one imo. so the end justifies the means, you're happy with lies as long as you approve of the end result? Not the values I want in law enforcement.

I am not shocked as this seems to happen too often. Disappointed yes but I can see what this thread is really about.