Eugenie and Beatrice

You make a very good point re innocent Post Office staff pleading guilty Rosie. The £12 million isn't proof of guilt.

Why would anybody pay out if they didn't need to?

Why would anyone accept the money?

Smileless2012

Why would anyone accept the money?

If someone offered you £12m on one hand or on the other the chance to go to court against a then prince of the realm on the understanding that you risk losing, and having the media of the word trashing what is left of your reputation, what would you do?

£12m is a life-changing sum of money to the vast majority of people, even if it is the sort of cash the late Queen might have in her back pocket. Also, the fact that such a sum was offered is an enormous clue to the fact that VG's claims were true. Why else would it have been given to her?

Smileless2012

Why would anyone accept the money?

That really is crossing a line.

It isn't evidence of wrong doing Doodledog just as the money being accepted isn't evidence that she wasn't telling the truth.

Some of the money went to a charity set up by Virginia Guiffre to help victims to speak out about their suffering and to try to bring an end to sex trafficking.

Smileless2012

It isn't evidence of wrong doing Doodledog just as the money being accepted isn't evidence that she wasn't telling the truth.

True. Apart from the risk of losing,
what she wanted was not to have her name and reputation plastered all over the media.
Possibly that was the intention of paying out too.

I read that Eugenie ( who I’ve always liked) now lives in Portugal and has cut herself off from her father.

MayBee70

I read that Eugenie ( who I’ve always liked) now lives in Portugal and has cut herself off from her father.

The fact that you can read that shows just how difficult it is for them to have any privacy.

Smileless2012

It isn't evidence of wrong doing Doodledog just as the money being accepted isn't evidence that she wasn't telling the truth.

So why ask why it was accepted?

I was just answering your question by suggesting a possible motive, and I'm far from being alone in feeling that an extremely wealthy person (ie one who can afford the very best lawyers) would give away so much if they were innocent. Had Andrew won, the press would have eviscerated VG - as it is she was portrayed as a gold-digger, a prostitute and liar. Imagine if that had been 'proven' in court.

sixandahalf

Why would anybody pay out if they didn't need to?

Presumably AMW didn't want to go to court.

Perhaps AMW thought paying would ensure silence.

I’m certain AMW, his mother and the immediate royal family took reputable legal advice before thst huge amount of money was offered

Smileless2012

Why would anyone accept the money?

Court would be daunting and no way of knowing the outcome.

Accept the money, retreat to anonymity.

Mollygo

Smileless2012

It isn't evidence of wrong doing Doodledog just as the money being accepted isn't evidence that she wasn't telling the truth.

True. Apart from the risk of losing,
what she wanted was not to have her name and reputation plastered all over the media.
Possibly that was the intention of paying out too.

She would have stood no chance in court against the very rich and the Establishment.

Allira
She would have stood no chance in court against the very rich and the Establishment.

I agree. Certainly not in the USA and sadly, I’m less certain about the legal process in the UK either.

But being rich hasn’t protected those not actually involved in AMW’s doings either in the media or on GN.

Known Facts-
1) Prince Andrew's Panorama documentary aired 16 November 2019 was disastrous- he did not make a good impression. RF aware of this and extent of public indignation. Outcome Andrew "steps back" from public duties.
2) 2021 Ghislaine Maxwell found guilty of child sex trafficking
3) August 2021 VG officially filed her civil lawsuit accusing Prince Andrew of sexual assault - this legal action followed years of her public allegations, plus photo, of which RF aware.
4) January 2022 amid the lawsuit, the Queen strips Andrew of his military titles and royal patronages and the use of HRH title.
5) February 2022 £12 million paid by Andrew (with loans from RF) in as an "out of court settlement" for that reason- to keep VG's accusations about Andrew and Andrew himself as a defendant "out of court".
6) October 2025 King formally begun the process to remove all of Andrew's Royal titles, honours, styles and honours.
7) February 2026 Andrew ordered to move out of the Royal Lodge on the Windsor estate.

In 2021 we cannot possibly say with any certainty what the RF "knew" or didn't "know" about specificities and truth of Andrew's dealings/relationship with Epstein.

We can however reasonably infer that in 2021 the RF "knew" Andrew, as a person, as a brother, son etc, his personality, some or even a large extent of his financial circumstances ( pension- leasehold details of the Royal lodge, peppercorn rent, public knowledge of SF's financial exploits, Andrew's ex wife living in Royal Lodge etc). The Queen and Andrew had knowledge and a relationship with Andrew since his birth, aware of his personal traits, observations of his relationships with others outside immediate family, how he responded to discipline and his royal status, feedback from courtiers, employees, advisors in the employ of the RF etc. All of this will no doubt have informed the RF's view whether Andrew's denials of any wrongdoing were more or less likely to be true at this stage. No doubt this knowledge also informed the decision making process of the risks involved in allowing VG's civil claim being heard in court and Andrew personally giving evidence and account of his behaviour and relationship with Epstein.

Over and above these facts of Andrew's dramatic fall from public grace we can only determine what the RF "knew" falls somewhere along the continuum of balance of probability deduction towards top end speculation- informed by our personal biases.

Why should VG, or any other victim, retreat to anonymity ?

Iam64- speculate to your heart's content. She's dead, by way of suicide so you will never know.

It's perfectly reasonable to ask why the money was accepted Doodledog when it's being asked why the money was given.

Iam64

Why should VG, or any other victim, retreat to anonymity ?

Perhaps I should have said 'personal privacy'? Not because I think VG did anything wrong, however, I'd want my life and choices to be private.

Iam64- speculate to your heart's content. She's dead, by way of suicide, so you will never know.

Tuliptree

Casdon

They paid £12 million to Virginia Guiffre. There was nothing like what we know now in the public arena in 2022. I’m not defending anything Andrew has done, but I can do without your feverish exaggerations in the attempt to make your point.

Why did they pay £12m? Because they knew is the only logical explanation. They knew. And they paid and it didn’t work did it ?

I think it could be logical to assume that Virginia Giuffré’s lawyers would be well aware that Andrew’s lawyers would never let it get to court to save embarrassment to the crown, so would be highly likely to settle, which, of course, would mean a hefty fee for them, and an excellent reason for them to encourage her to raise a claim.
I think this could also apply to other high-profile damages cases, perhaps like Michael Jackson. Of course, this is just my opinion, as, unlike others, I am not privy to the workings of the royal family.

Something worth considering Daddima.

Yes * Daddima* , a possible