Matt Goodwin

The pot may be being stirred now but the pot was built piece by piece by those who embraced identity politics,those who ignored the concerns expressed by people, those who called people stupid for voting brexit, etc etc. If we build such a pot, and place the spoon in, don't be surprised if someone comes along and gives it a stir.

MartavTaurus

Maremia

There is always news about 'dissatisfaction' in the media.
Happy stories are rarely 'click bait'.

Indeed. But I think we've reached a point where this dissatisfaction has turned into complete frustration, which then translates into a lot of anger and cynicism.

We're probably not quite at the doom and despair stage yet, but despite the good things this government has done, (and there are admittedly a few), nothing appears to be really working. No wonder people feel disengaged as they struggle to imagine a happy future.

There doesn't appear to be any solution, even in the distance, and that's what causes a lot of discontent. Matt Goodwin might overdo the negative aspects, but there's no denying there's a few truths tucked into what he writes.

My feeling is that dissatisfaction has been turned into complete frustration by people stirring the pot, who know exactly what they want to achieve.

If course there are some truths in some of what Goodwin writes. There is no doubt that there is inequality in the country - and evidence suggests the gaps are widening. People have always felt distanced from the Whitehall "elites". Nevertheless, it's beyond me to understand why people think Reform (or Restore) can improve the situation. The only "solution" they come up with is ridding the country of anybody foreign.

I think if I had to choose, I would pick that sexist nonsense over thr progressive misogyny that has been peddled for so long with no one seeming to worry about it - men in women's spaces, sex work is work, and so on.

PS. sorry to use the plural pronoun "we" so much above.
It's a follow-on from "we" = a lot of people, maybe me included, in Oreo's comment.

Others do not have to include themselves!

Graphite

I have read the DM article. You can use the Remove Paywall app to see it.

There is no doubt that Matt Goodwin is articulate but he also twists the words of others to make his own case against immigration.

He uses the term suicidal empathy citing Arnold J. Toynbee's quote, "Civilisations die from suicide, not by murder,”

Key aspects of Toynbee’s argument were:

Self-Destruction: Civilisations fall when they stop solving their own problems and abandon the principles that created their success.

Internal Causes: Decline is rarely caused by external enemies, but by internal decay such as corruption, militarism, and loss of purpose.

I wonder if OP would care to say something about:

• what they consider to be some of the principles that created Britain’s success which have been abandoned and/

• If Toynbee said that decline is rarely caused by external enemies then why is Goodwin citing Toynbee to speak of migrants in those terms?

Toynbee published works on the German terror in Belgium, France and Poland during WW1, describing the kinds of atrocities that Reform are now suggesting in their desire to copy Trump’s brutal ICE force.

I wonder too what OP thinks about the corruption (and hypocrisy) in the very party that Goodwin was recently seeking election to represent.

Tice is in the news again for large-scale tax avoidance. He called Angela Rayner “the biggest hypocrite in the land.” because she acted on poor advice and underpaid £40,000 in stamp duty (which had she bought the apartment after her disabled son turned 18 this year, would not have been an issue). She was amiss in not seeking professional tax advice. Had she done so they would surewy have adviced her to delay buying a property until after that date just as people defer or accelerate transactions to take advantage of SDLT holidays.

To my knowledge, Tice said nothing about Farage buying a house in his girlfriend’s name to evade the same tax.

Tice’s property company used offshore structures to avoid nearly £600,000 in corporation tax (with wider avoidance estimates above £1m). It is extremely unlikely he will pay the tax he avoided. Reform’s election “contract” said it would end the offshore tax rip off. Reform is funded predominantly by foreign and UK nationals who avoid UK tax.

Who are the hypocrites here? Funny how many self-proclaimed “British patriots” spend huge amounts of time and effort setting up schemes to avoid paying UK tax.

Farage has gone on record saying that he regrets that his party took control of Worcestershire County Council because its problems are too hard for them to solve.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93wv0ylq9yo

They were elected on a promise to cut taxes and have instead increased them by almost 9%, one of the largest increases in its history.

If Reform cannot balance the books of a local county council, what are the chances it could manage the national economy?

Instead it is scapegoating migrants which we should all know is an early sign of the fascism that Goodwin would have us all all live under, not least women with his archaic views about women as baby factories and penalising women who do not have children.

And now we have Reform’s Peter York, vice chairman of West Northamptonshire Council, saying "some women should have never left the kitchen”. He claims his words were taken out of context but in what context would a man say that?

Reform are not a progressive party but a bunch of people who would have us believe there was some halcyon era of Britishness which never existed.

How do you remove the pay wall? Is there an app?

Thank you for your detailed answer. The bye election apparently happened after Andrew Gwynne sent a string of offensive and abusive whatsapp messages.

We can all find, through internet searches, articles that support our views. Farage did say he regretted taking control of Worcestershire County Council because it was virtually bankrupt but you did not mention that was the reason why. So you can see how easy it is to twist the narrative!

Maremia

There is always news about 'dissatisfaction' in the media.
Happy stories are rarely 'click bait'.

Indeed. But I think we've reached a point where this dissatisfaction has turned into complete frustration, which then translates into a lot of anger and cynicism.

We're probably not quite at the doom and despair stage yet, but despite the good things this government has done, (and there are admittedly a few), nothing appears to be really working. No wonder people feel disengaged as they struggle to imagine a happy future.

There doesn't appear to be any solution, even in the distance, and that's what causes a lot of discontent. Matt Goodwin might overdo the negative aspects, but there's no denying there's a few truths tucked into what he writes.

There is always news about 'dissatisfaction' in the media.
Happy stories are rarely 'click bait'.

Oreo

A lot of people will agree with what Matt Goodwin thinks.

And a lot won't. That defines "divisive".

I don't need explanation of hate speech I have watched the damage the concept has done to women and others, many did face the threat of the consequences, those people were braver and much more decent people than those who tried to shut speech down with that phrase.

Cossy

Meandrogrog

I couldnt care less about others frowning on my opinions. I probably would frown on theirs! My query is, what is breaking the law? What am I allowed and not allowed to say? Inciting violence is obvious but what else does breaking the law involve? In other words, what precisely can I not say. Its all a bit reminiscent of 1984 (the book)

It’s quite easy to look up the laws around both hate crime and hate speech and it covers a lot more than just slating immigrants.

I’m sure once you’ve read you’ll totally understand what is and what isn’t allowed and the laws don’t just apply to British people, they apply to ALL residents in our country.

I do wonder why hate crimes keep coming up, I wouldnt post on here or anywhere else any kind of hate.

In 1984 the truth of what was happening was being denied by the political elite. I feel that being able to speak the truth as some see it of what is happening to this country is being stifled. That is very different from posting hate posts.

A lot of people will agree with what Matt Goodwin thinks.

Only Welsh, Scottish and NI posters know if the dissatisfaction has spread there too.

There is so much dissatisfaction in the country, England anyway that anything could happen when the next voting comes around.

Reform could never win a GE on their own but if they team up with the Conservatives could form a coalition.
Labour won’t be winning on its own again either but would have to team up with Greens and Lib Dems God help us.

Cossy

I should add that “attainment” stats were lower than average, however “progress” stats were always very positive.

Outcomes and success should never be measured by academic achievement alone.

Too much emphasis is placed on results when there's actually far more to learning - like enthusiasm, enjoyment and self-esteem. This is probably especially important in the case of non English speaking children.

And definitely, a good Head can make big difference, though their hands are often tied due to the constraints of a rigid curriculum.
But that's me wandering away from the topic now!

Like all laws, we may not agree with them, break them at your peril and face the consequences.

“ Hate speech crimes in the UK involve behavior intended to stir up hatred or harass individuals based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or transgender identity. Offences, including online abuse and threats, are prosecuted under the Public Order Act 1986 and Malicious Communications Act 1988, with potential prison”

Meandrogrog

I couldnt care less about others frowning on my opinions. I probably would frown on theirs! My query is, what is breaking the law? What am I allowed and not allowed to say? Inciting violence is obvious but what else does breaking the law involve? In other words, what precisely can I not say. Its all a bit reminiscent of 1984 (the book)

It’s quite easy to look up the laws around both hate crime and hate speech and it covers a lot more than just slating immigrants.

I’m sure once you’ve read you’ll totally understand what is and what isn’t allowed and the laws don’t just apply to British people, they apply to ALL residents in our country.

And presumably the same scorn applies to all who do that.

Maremia

Excuse me cossy, but the British people who leave to live permanently in Spain etc, who don't integrate, learn the language, are not immigrants, they are that exceptional category ex pats.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I should add that “attainment” stats were lower than average, however “progress” stats were always very positive.

MartavTaurus

That's an encouraging post about your children's multicultural school, Cossy.
26+ languages is quite a tall order to bring all pupils up to the expected level in English.

Were there several teachers with language specialism? I ask because I had some class teachers who were brilliant at teaching Maths and Science, but who would have undoubtedly struggled with teaching English to a considerable number of non-native pupils in the class environment.

I'm a linguist myself, and am more than aware that the skills for listening and speaking a new language are mastered very quickly, but those associated with reading and especially writing take quite a bit longer.

Thanks, they did have one full time teacher with a “bent” for languages and she was the appointed teacher for these children when they first arrived.

We had a large amount of Romany Gypsy children too and we were lucky enough to have two teaching assistants very familiar with these communities.

My daughters both became friends with some of these ethnic pupils and would “go to tea” with them sometimes.

There were obviously issues within the school at times, but it worked mainly due to the hard work and diligence of a very positive, open and hard working head and some truly dedicated staff. It was quite a large school with three form entrance.

A great and encouraging head can make such a positive difference to both pupils and staff.

Thank you Jane43. I must have misread it. What you explained, now makes sense.

That's an encouraging post about your children's multicultural school, Cossy.
26+ languages is quite a tall order to bring all pupils up to the expected level in English.

Were there several teachers with language specialism? I ask because I had some class teachers who were brilliant at teaching Maths and Science, but who would have undoubtedly struggled with teaching English to a considerable number of non-native pupils in the class environment.

I'm a linguist myself, and am more than aware that the skills for listening and speaking a new language are mastered very quickly, but those associated with reading and especially writing take quite a bit longer.

Primrose

At no point have I EVER read any Gransnet post supporting “uncontrolled immigration” There is a chasm between treating those resident in our country or those seeking to reside here (for any reason) justly and fairly, and flinging open our borders and shouting “All come here now”.

IMO, our entire immigration system requires over hauling, making it more effective and effective, ensuring that those living here still have valid visas, giving Aslyum Seekers a safe legal route in and processing their claims far more quickly and efficiently.

So many things around immigration are ineffective and unjust, I think most of us would welcome reviews and reforms (small r, please note!)