George Monbiot, Guardian, this morning

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/mar/19/iran-greed-oil-capitalism-regimes

Thanks Maizie. If a summary is helpful---

Wars are deliberately driven by the need to secure oil

Governments act on behalf of oil corporations

Defence contractors and energy companies form a coordinated bloc of influence

Conflicts (especially in the Middle East) are mainly about controlling resources like oil

They have been fighting in the Middle East for 3 thousand years.
If its not oil it will be something else.
Usually territory.

I read the article. I'm not entirely convinced that oil and getting oil is the main or sole cause of Trump and Netanyahu's decision to strike Iran.

But one silver lining might be it focusses people's minds on the extent of our dependence and promote green energy strategies.

Caleo

Thanks Maizie. If a summary is helpful---

Wars are deliberately driven by the need to secure oil

Governments act on behalf of oil corporations

Defence contractors and energy companies form a coordinated bloc of influence

Conflicts (especially in the Middle East) are mainly about controlling resources like oil

Only 20% of the world's oil goes through the Straits of Hormuz, so lets get this all in perspective. Yes, it is a significant amount but not an economy destroyer. Oil and gas come from many areas of the world including US itself, South-east Asia, Venezuela and other South American countries, UK and Norway. All these countries can up their output, and probably will

On green energy. uite simply, much of the technology to effective harvest the weather has only been developed in the last 20 years. Wind turbines were around but they were by modern standards grossly under powered. It has taken over 30 years from the first effective wind turbine to the current high output turbines that are installed now. The same with solar energy.

To blame all conflict on getting hold of oil and the companies behind it is ridiculous. What advantage does the oil industry get from Trump bombing Iran? It has only become and oil war because the Iranians very sensibly countered Trumps bombing by shutting the Straits of Hormuz.

Why is Trump bombing Iran? Who knows, but the main reasons are likely to be the desire to stop it developing nuclear weapons and, a reasonable, if not accepteable reason, that Hamas and Hezbullah and many other terrorist groups opposed to Israel and the US could not operate without Iranian funding. Another reason is that Trump is in thrall to Israel and Netanyahu and is doing its bidding. Why?, who knows? Trump is the lunatic running the assylum, who knows how the thought processes function in his befuddled mind.

Polanski, Monbiot and their minions are very clever political manipulators. Blaming everything on oil is a nice simplistic argument that doesn't bear much examination.

People have been fighting in the Middle East for millennia, and over that same period of time, people have been fighting in Europe, the Americas, India Asia. Myths and legends tell us of wars and heroes. Fighting over land and resources.
But I do believe that much of the recent Middle East turmoil is about oil, and who controls it.

Now, imagine how independent we would be, if we were able to make more use of our own renewables?

Maremia

Now, imagine how independent we would be, if we were able to make more use of our own renewables?

Unfortunately, unless things have changed radically over the past 2 or 3 years, our privatised 'National Grid' has a waiting list of renewable energy companies wanting to be connected to the creaking infrastructure. (I've just checked with AI and there are still long delays in connection)

We can make them but they need to be connected...

OTOH, did we have any discussion about the small solar EV panels which can be bought over the counter and connect to your domestic system via a normal socket?
While they can't power a whole house they can reduce mains usage.

To return to Monbiot.

As he points out, the current regime in Iran is the result of the US and allies removing the democratic Iranian regime in 1953 because the regime was about to nationalise its oil production. The Shah who was imposed ran an autocratic and brutal regime, though the foreign (notable British) owned companies remained with their 'owners'. The current regime was established with a popular uprising leading to the overthrow of the Shah. So, although Trump's war isn't specifically about oil it is certainly well related to it.

Looking at 19th and 20th C history it amazes me that Western/European countries have always felt that they had the right to carve up the world into countries, and change regimes by force, to suit their convenience and pockets...

MaizieD

Maremia

Now, imagine how independent we would be, if we were able to make more use of our own renewables?

Unfortunately, unless things have changed radically over the past 2 or 3 years, our privatised 'National Grid' has a waiting list of renewable energy companies wanting to be connected to the creaking infrastructure. (I've just checked with AI and there are still long delays in connection)

We can make them but they need to be connected...

OTOH, did we have any discussion about the small solar EV panels which can be bought over the counter and connect to your domestic system via a normal socket?
While they can't power a whole house they can reduce mains usage.

All current renewables are unreliable. Even now there are times when wind power can produce only 5-10% of our power. On a good day it is 40% plus. The same with solar power.

To run a working economy we need a steady baseload of electricity. The answer to that is not renewables but nuclear.

We could also produce a lot of power from tidal barrages. For this you need a very high rise and fall of tide. The south Wales coast is ideal for that, but the Severn barrage was turned down on wildlife grounds and the plans to put a string of barrages along the coast that could have produce d 20% plus of our power 24/7 was refused funding by the government.

Tidal production using floating devices has been very difficult to get working effectively. It is not that the process is difficult but salt sea water is a hostile environment and corrodes and damages anything left in the sea for any time, so devices soon break down and nobody has yet developed a cost effective way of dealing with the problem.

LemonJam

I read the article. I'm not entirely convinced that oil and getting oil is the main or sole cause of Trump and Netanyahu's decision to strike Iran.

But one silver lining might be it focusses people's minds on the extent of our dependence and promote green energy strategies.

Green energy components, infrastructure etc is made from plastics derived from the byproducts of crude oil.

I agree loopyloo.

Oldfrill 16.26.

Granted- plastics make up 11-16% wind turbines, about 10% of solar panels and of course play a role in EVs and in plastic pipes used in energy infrastructure as plastic is light, durable and improves performance. But plastic usage in green technology remains a small percentage of global plastic which is still dominated by packaging - 38% and construction 23%.

I think approximately 4% to 6% of crude oil is used to make plastics in Europe and 4- 8% of crude oil is used directly as raw material and for energy to produce plastics globally.

Maizie Looking at 19th and 20th C history it amazes me that Western/European countries have always felt that they had the right to carve up the world into countries, and change regimes by force, to suit their convenience and pockets

It is not specific to Western European countries, every empire since the beginning of time has felt they have the right to carve the worldup into countries and change regimes by force

Whether you are talking about (ancient and modern) China, the Mongols, various Indian groups, in Africa, and so on and so on. Where you have people they vie for power and the winner takes over the loser and tries to turn them into a pale version of the conueror.

George Monbiot was on Question Time recently. He was so eloquent and no-one on the panel could disagree with him. He also got a lot of support from the audience.

This is the problem.

M0nica

This is the problem.

"The Problem". is how intelligent persons like you MOnika, are so enthralled by capitalist propaganda.

M0nica

Caleo

Thanks Maizie. If a summary is helpful---

Wars are deliberately driven by the need to secure oil

Governments act on behalf of oil corporations

Defence contractors and energy companies form a coordinated bloc of influence

Conflicts (especially in the Middle East) are mainly about controlling resources like oil

Only 20% of the world's oil goes through the Straits of Hormuz, so lets get this all in perspective. Yes, it is a significant amount but not an economy destroyer. Oil and gas come from many areas of the world including US itself, South-east Asia, Venezuela and other South American countries, UK and Norway. All these countries can up their output, and probably will

On green energy. uite simply, much of the technology to effective harvest the weather has only been developed in the last 20 years. Wind turbines were around but they were by modern standards grossly under powered. It has taken over 30 years from the first effective wind turbine to the current high output turbines that are installed now. The same with solar energy.

To blame all conflict on getting hold of oil and the companies behind it is ridiculous. What advantage does the oil industry get from Trump bombing Iran? It has only become and oil war because the Iranians very sensibly countered Trumps bombing by shutting the Straits of Hormuz.

Why is Trump bombing Iran? Who knows, but the main reasons are likely to be the desire to stop it developing nuclear weapons and, a reasonable, if not accepteable reason, that Hamas and Hezbullah and many other terrorist groups opposed to Israel and the US could not operate without Iranian funding. Another reason is that Trump is in thrall to Israel and Netanyahu and is doing its bidding. Why?, who knows? Trump is the lunatic running the assylum, who knows how the thought processes function in his befuddled mind.

Polanski, Monbiot and their minions are very clever political manipulators. Blaming everything on oil is a nice simplistic argument that doesn't bear much examination.

Thank goodness there is someone with common sense on this thread. I sometimes think Gransnet has been taken over by students judging by the very stupid remarks I see.

Well said MaisieD

Caleo

M0nica

This is the problem.

"The Problem". is how intelligent persons like you MOnika, are so enthralled by capitalist propaganda.

How very rude!
I would say that the problem is anyone being enthralled by George Monbiot.
….and that M0nica is correct in her comments.

GRAMERCY - just because people have a different view to yours, they are not "stupid". I'm not a student but I used to be many years ago and my opinions were just as valid as anyone else's. There are plenty of "polictical manipulators" taking opposing views to Mr Monbiot.

Caleo

M0nica

This is the problem.

"The Problem". is how intelligent persons like you MOnika, are so enthralled by capitalist propaganda.

Caleo I think for myself and reach my own conclusions. Given your post I can only conclude you do not.

Caleo

Thanks Maizie. If a summary is helpful---

Wars are deliberately driven by the need to secure oil

Governments act on behalf of oil corporations

Defence contractors and energy companies form a coordinated bloc of influence

Conflicts (especially in the Middle East) are mainly about controlling resources like oil

Absolutely spot on.

War has been going on for thousands of years for land,religion, precious metals, minerals. Yes, there are options now not to use oil but the destruction and pollution of natural resources to obtain these is horrific eg lithium for batteries. Solar panels, wind turbines only have a life expectancy of 20/25 years then there is the issue of disposal. We seem to solve one problem then create another.