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Revolving door politics

(255 Posts)
Fallingstar Tue 12-May-26 09:04:43

Today it seems Starmer could resign as PM, but what does this say about our national politics in the past decade, when PMs on both sides of the political divide have come and gone with tedious regularity?
Have we grown out of one party politics?
Is it it time to embrace coalition politics?
Is social media/populous views responsible for revolving doors politics??
I wanted Starmer to go but am now considering this more deeply and think it could be more harmful than good. Surely our PMs cannot be subject to a lynching mob whenever the going gets tough. If a party wins an election shouldn’t that mean they see out a full term?

Cossy Wed 13-May-26 17:21:30

mae13

Waste no tears or compassion when senior politicians fall. They have their appropriate safety nets in place.

Losing their jobs was probably the best thing, financially, that could have happened to Liz and Boris.

Part-time directorships galore are just waiting for them - you won't see them anywhere near a JobCentre. The Westminster Club will take care of them.

I think you mistake being g stepped down or resigning as Leader is “loss of a job” these people still have their roles as MPs until such time as they lose their seats at either a by-election or a General Election.

Fallingstar Wed 13-May-26 17:29:37

I just wonder if those who said they were casting a protest vote to get rid of Starmer recently actually realise that they voted for a political party, not just a PM, indeed Starmer can’t make political decisions unilaterally, the Labour Party make decisions together, with the help of senior aides etc., indeed even Starmer’s speeches are written for him.
So if a new leader from the very same party that made these decisions together is to replace Starmer, what actually changes??

MayBee70 Wed 13-May-26 17:48:55

mae13

Waste no tears or compassion when senior politicians fall. They have their appropriate safety nets in place.

Losing their jobs was probably the best thing, financially, that could have happened to Liz and Boris.

Part-time directorships galore are just waiting for them - you won't see them anywhere near a JobCentre. The Westminster Club will take care of them.

Johnson was always a lazy leader who I’m sure relishes his post PM financial benefits. Imo Starmer wanted the job because he actually wanted to do good. If he wanted to he could just walk away with all the benefits but he isn’t doing so because he isn’t one to give up on a job he’d worked for. His strength of character, with all that’s happening around him, astounds me. As for Truss, she’s using her post PM position to support Trump. I can say with total certainty that when Keir is no longer PM he won’t squander that position.

eazybee Wed 13-May-26 17:59:38

When Starmer was elected I thought he would be a safe leader, dull and uninspired but able to introduce some stability. How well he deceived us.
My distrust of Starmer began when I discovered he and Richard Hermer had worked Pro Bono as Human Rights lawyers for Phil Shiner, a corrupt lawyer involved in prosecuting British soldiers who fought in the Iraqi war. All accusations were proved to be false and the witnesses bribed; Shiner was struck off and given a prison sentence. Some time later I learned Starmer was enthusiastically working to repeal the Legacy Act, brought in to prevent prosecution of British veterans, and was intending to continue to prosecute veterans from the Troubles. His own soldiers. I found it hard to believe any politician could do that, let alone a Prime Minister.
This was followed by his dissembling about transgender issues, return to the EU, prosecution of the Grooming Gangs, the punishing of party members whom he considered failed him, and his promotion of Mandelson against all advice. All these contributed to the dismal local election results, and blaming the press cannot alter the facts.
Keir Starmer should go soon. He has been opposed and is therefore more dangerous, and I think, deluded about his ability.
My opinions are based on my research and my observation.
I am not a Labour voter, but he is at present my Prime Minister, and I fear for the future.

Oreo Wed 13-May-26 18:07:15

I’m a Labour voter and agree with all you say eazybee

Delene100 Wed 13-May-26 18:08:38

Elsi

It's Rachel Reeves that should definitely go the trouble and havoc that woman has caused is dreadful.all she's does is put up taxes every time she opens her mouth

I have been saying this all along. Pity Starmer failed to see this. Reeves is the cause of all his woes.

Mollygo Wed 13-May-26 18:33:24

Oreo it’s not whether he’s done a good job. You won’t find any praise for him from me, but the others haven’t exactly distinguished themselves including those who’ve signed the “out” list.
DD tells me constantly about the latest from their queen of the pothole photoshoots, whilst still excusing herself from action because “we’re not in charge of the council”.

MayBee70 Wed 13-May-26 23:51:26

From facebook
With thanks to Andy Fitchet
A long read on my thoughts about the current speculation about Keir’s future.
Keir Starmer is not perfect. No Labour leader ever has been. But if there is one thing British politics does with astonishing consistency, it is this: it builds Labour leaders up just high enough to tear them to pieces the moment they become a genuine threat to the status quo.
We saw it with Gordon Brown. History has already begun rehabilitating Brown, but during his premiership he was caricatured relentlessly — awkward, gloomy, indecisive, “unelected,” somehow both too intellectual and not political enough. Yet Brown led Britain through the global financial crisis with a seriousness and competence that many economists now acknowledge prevented catastrophe. The very people who mocked him later quietly admitted he had been right.
Ed Miliband was ridiculed for eating a bacon sandwich.
Jeremy Corbyn was treated as an existential threat to civilisation itself.
And now Keir Starmer, despite being a cautious centrist by almost any historical Labour standard, is being denounced simultaneously as authoritarian, weak, radical, conservative, elitist and socialist depending on which newspaper one happens to open.
There is something deeply unhealthy about this cycle. Britain has become addicted to permanent outrage politics. We no longer seem capable of allowing governments — particularly Labour governments — to govern without treating every disagreement, every compromise, every awkward interview as evidence of total collapse.
And yet, beneath the noise, there is a government actually doing things.
This Labour government inherited a country battered by fourteen years of instability: collapsing public trust, crumbling infrastructure, stagnant wages, NHS waiting lists, local councils on the edge of bankruptcy, rivers full of sewage, schools literally unsafe because of concrete decay, and an economy that seemed permanently stuck between drift and decline.
And all this after a Conservative period that gave us not stability but chaos.
From 1979 to 2007 Britain had just three Prime Ministers: Margaret Thatcher, John Major, and Tony Blair. Agree or disagree with them politically, that was an era of relative governmental continuity.
Now look at the present madness. Since 2016 Britain has lurched from David Cameron to Theresa May to Boris Johnson to Liz Truss to Rishi Sunak — and if the rumours and plotting continue, we may genuinely end up talking about five Prime Ministers in five years across this political era. That is not healthy democracy. That is systemic instability.
The Conservatives lectured Britain for years about competence and seriousness while cycling through leaders like a reality television programme. One Prime Minister crashed the economy with a mini-budget. Another became synonymous with scandal and dishonesty. Another resigned after gambling on a referendum they barely understood.
Against that backdrop, Starmer’s greatest crime often seems to be that he is… normal.
Calmness now looks suspicious to a political culture addicted to spectacle.
And despite governing in brutally difficult economic conditions, Labour has already begun to shift the tone and direction of the country. Workers’ rights reforms. Greater investment into green energy and infrastructure. Attempts to rebuild relationships with Europe after years of performative hostility. Movement on NHS waiting lists. Action on housing and planning. An industrial strategy that at least recognises Britain needs to produce and build again rather than simply speculate and outsource.
None of this is revolutionary. But perhaps that is precisely the point.
After years of ideological drama and governmental collapse, competence is beginning to look radical.
There is also something profoundly unfair in the expectation placed upon Labour governments. Conservatives are often judged by intentions; Labour is judged by perfection. Tory failure becomes unfortunate reality. Labour failure becomes moral collapse. Conservative U-turns are pragmatism; Labour compromise is betrayal.
Starmer is trying to govern a fractured country in an age where social media rewards fury over patience, purity over progress, and outrage over realism. Every decision alienates somebody because politics now demands impossible ideological totality.
But government is not protest. It is not performance. It is the difficult, compromised, frustrating work of actually running a country.
And perhaps that is what unsettles some commentators most about Starmer. He does not fit the easy caricature. He is not a revolutionary firebrand nor a Thatcherite ideologue. He is a lawyerly, methodical social democrat trying to stabilise a country that has spent nearly a decade politically disintegrating.
And this is precisely why the current political moment matters so much.
Look at the rhetoric emerging from Reform during local election campaigns. Again and again, the message is not simply “vote for us locally” but “get rid of Keir Starmer.” The entire movement feeds off permanent instability, permanent grievance, permanent anger. It thrives when people stop believing democratic institutions can ever work.
But we cannot simply hand them what they want.
Because if every government is torn down within months, if every Prime Minister becomes politically disposable before policies have time to work, then politics itself becomes impossible. Democracy turns into an endless carousel of rage and reaction where no long-term thinking survives.
There is a profound irony here. The same political forces that helped create years of chaos now present themselves as the answer to chaos. The same voices that cheered on division, culture wars and anti-political fury now ask to be trusted as the guardians of stability.
Britain cannot keep governing like this.
A serious country cannot replace leaders every time opinion polls wobble or headlines become difficult. It cannot endlessly confuse turbulence with transformation. It cannot keep rewarding those who profit from public cynicism while punishing those attempting the slow, imperfect work of rebuilding institutions.
That does not mean Labour should avoid scrutiny. Far from it. Democracy requires scrutiny. But scrutiny is different from sabotage.
The truth is that much of the hostility towards Starmer says less about Starmer himself and more about a political culture that is understandably impatient for change but one that can’t seem to get its head around the fact that it takes longer than 22 months to turn around a failing charity, council or football club, let alone turn around a country where every single public service was on its knees.

David49 Thu 14-May-26 01:04:23

Delene100

Elsi

It's Rachel Reeves that should definitely go the trouble and havoc that woman has caused is dreadful.all she's does is put up taxes every time she opens her mouth

I have been saying this all along. Pity Starmer failed to see this. Reeves is the cause of all his woes.

To meet the spending that Labour voters want revenue has to be increased, there have been many demands to tax the wealthy. That is what Reeves has done the highest earners and property owners in the UK now pay a lot more tax, as I have pointed out previously that can only be done by taxing a large slice the population. Not the billionaires, those with savings, pensions, property, motorists and businesses, thats exactly what happened.

Labour MPs knew what Starmers policies were before the GE and were elected on those promises, yet now want something entirely different. Whoever replaces Starmer has exactly the same problem, it's only those that have wealth that can be taxed, many of those vote Labour and won't like it.

twaddle Thu 14-May-26 01:18:53

David49

Delene100

Elsi

It's Rachel Reeves that should definitely go the trouble and havoc that woman has caused is dreadful.all she's does is put up taxes every time she opens her mouth

I have been saying this all along. Pity Starmer failed to see this. Reeves is the cause of all his woes.

To meet the spending that Labour voters want revenue has to be increased, there have been many demands to tax the wealthy. That is what Reeves has done the highest earners and property owners in the UK now pay a lot more tax, as I have pointed out previously that can only be done by taxing a large slice the population. Not the billionaires, those with savings, pensions, property, motorists and businesses, thats exactly what happened.

Labour MPs knew what Starmers policies were before the GE and were elected on those promises, yet now want something entirely different. Whoever replaces Starmer has exactly the same problem, it's only those that have wealth that can be taxed, many of those vote Labour and won't like it.

But they're not the ones who have voted the Labour Party out, although they could be the ones who have paid for the advertising/propaganda, which has influenced voters.

twaddle Thu 14-May-26 01:23:44

I always recall how shocked Churchill was that the British public voted him out after everything he did during WW2. Then they kicked Attlee out after he did more for the British working public than any other single PM. The public is fickle and can't be relied upon even if a government does what is wanted. We'd have a change of government every few weeks, if it responded to every which way public opinion sways.

MaggsMcG Thu 14-May-26 06:54:02

mum2three

I think our whole system is flawed. So often people are forced to choose between a candidate and the party. How many good counsellors lost their seats at the last election because of the party they represented?
I think a committee (if that's the right word) would be better, with debates to decide policies.

Ive been saying that for years. My favourite history teacher once told my class that British voters had lost their way and we should always vote for the candidate in our own constituency that worked best for us and not always vote like the USA where they do vote for a person to be President. She felt that voting the way we were originally supposed to would prevent our Government from being one sided.

tanith Thu 14-May-26 07:58:42

I hate to say this I am a Labour voter but I will be disappointed with anyone who puts their hat in the ring to replace Keir Starmer at this time, he’s not perfect by any means (what Prime Minister ever is?). As a lot of people I’d like things to get better quicker but nothing moves slower than change in legislation etc. I don’t claim to be very knowledgable about politics as many of you are I just feel triggering a leadership contest now will cause chaos.
Just give him more time!

fancythat Thu 14-May-26 08:11:15

Got half way through the fb link and agreed with that part.
Not the 2nd part.

Against that backdrop, Starmer’s greatest crime often seems to be that he is… normal.

Uh. No.
And see what he wants to come in. Abolish jury system. Absolutely not.
Id. Absolutely not.

fancythat Thu 14-May-26 08:12:37

I think the problem in the last few years has been, our Country is more dishonest.
Which sadly, or especially includes politicians as well.

If Starmer had stood up to that, and not "stood by" his dishonest helpers, then he may have got further than he has.

Oreo Thu 14-May-26 08:28:56

Define normal😄
Starmer is hopeless at being PM, that’s the truth.Good at being a lawyer.
Blaming the public won’t wash, his own MP’s see that he’s hopeless.
As to Labour replacing their PM’s…..they usually don’t it’s rare, it’s the Conservatives who do that as their mechanism for changing PM’s is easier.
To all Labour voters on here, do you want them to remain in power past the next GE? If the answer is yes then Starmer needs to be replaced sooner rather than later.

Oreo Thu 14-May-26 08:31:39

It goes without saying that Reeves needs to go at the same time.
Starmer doesn’t have credible judgement or act as a strong leader, if he had he would have replaced her ages ago.

fancythat Thu 14-May-26 08:33:23

Starmer doesn’t have credible judgement or act as a strong leader, if he had he would have replaced her ages ago

No. He stands by everyone. Even Mandelson.

icanhandthemback Thu 14-May-26 09:44:26

Oreo, why does it have to be the sole blame of the politicians, in this case Starmer? The public play their part too. They have differing expectations and nobody can really fulfil them. The thirst for drama on the 24 hour news coverage, the social media dialogue and so forth are all playing their part too.

Basgetti Thu 14-May-26 11:29:35

Elsi

It's Rachel Reeves that should definitely go the trouble and havoc that woman has caused is dreadful.all she's does is put up taxes every time she opens her mouth

The economic figures released before the Iran war began were improved. Her policies were working. Thats what matters.

David49 Thu 14-May-26 14:03:59

No chancellor is going to be popular raising taxes or restricting spending but thats what needs to be done, if the UK is going to become economically sustainable. Reeves hasn't been moved because Starmer agrees with their policies

That is not the problem with Starmer it's the lack of loyalty amongst his MPs who want a more radical socialist leader, Red Ed or Red Angela would suit them fine.

MayBee70 Thu 14-May-26 14:13:31

David49

No chancellor is going to be popular raising taxes or restricting spending but thats what needs to be done, if the UK is going to become economically sustainable. Reeves hasn't been moved because Starmer agrees with their policies

That is not the problem with Starmer it's the lack of loyalty amongst his MPs who want a more radical socialist leader, Red Ed or Red Angela would suit them fine.

I think their plan was always to get elected via Starmer and then replace him.

valdali Thu 14-May-26 16:25:19

TerriBull

I didn't vote for Labour, but I really hope Starmer doesn't go, better the devil you know are my thoughts. I think he's been disappointing apart from when he stood up to Trump. Rachel Reeves has been a positively awful Chancellor imo, she's reeked havoc on business and the effects of which are catastrophic.

How has she reeked havoc on business though? Our economy had the highest growth to March of all the large economies according to the BBC / figures announced today. I know this is just one eg.

Sometimes young people have got into employment on zero hours contracts or very part-time work in a few different jobs (because they just want to leave school, enjoy themselves & earn some cash to do so I assume). This is more difficult because zero hours contracts have gone & the NI changes did hit hardest where businesses emplyed a lot of part-timers rather than a less full-time. But there are still places left in apprenticeships that don't get taken up, & those trades are in demand. It's less flexible than zero-hours & not everyone will get in, but long-term it's better for the young person's lifetime earnings or chance of starting thir own business (unless they want to be an influencer or get into the music business, but not many make it).

valdali Thu 14-May-26 16:28:15

Highest growth in the 3 months to March....

David49 Fri 15-May-26 12:06:53

MayBee70

David49

No chancellor is going to be popular raising taxes or restricting spending but thats what needs to be done, if the UK is going to become economically sustainable. Reeves hasn't been moved because Starmer agrees with their policies

That is not the problem with Starmer it's the lack of loyalty amongst his MPs who want a more radical socialist leader, Red Ed or Red Angela would suit them fine.

I think their plan was always to get elected via Starmer and then replace him.

What happened at the GE was Reform split the Tory vote and let Labour in, locally it was Liberal , so a large number of new MPs joined the Commons that did not share Starmers aims, now that is proving fatal for him.

Whatever happens now, a Labour move to the left is going to be very short lived and even less popular than today, at the next GE a Tory/Reform coalition is almost certain.