Andy Burnham has spent years talking about serious tax reform. He will very soon be in a position to do it, or at least begin the process.

Cossy

Oreo

Instead of casting about to put any new taxes in place ( window tax anyone?) he needs to put up income tax, that’s where the most money comes from.Starmer didn’t have the guts to do it, and it does take guts as everyone grumbles, but Burnham needs to.
Then he needs to do a u turn on the policy of putting up NI on employers to get more younger people into work.

I can see the sense in this!

However employers do not pay National Insurance for under 21s or apprentices under 25 unless they earn more than £4189 per month. This policy was introduced in 2015.

The point made by the article in the Times and explained in the video was the overall idea of loosing three taxes and replacing them with one. It's a starting point not a full blown, finished policy.

I can only repeat what I have already said - "the existence of farmers doesn't by itself undermine the case for an LVT". However, it does raise questions about rate-setting and exemptions. These would no doubt be debatable once we have some idea of government intention. At the moment, should the idea of an LVT tax be seen as something a new PM wants to run with, there is no reason to believe that land being farmed would not be treated very positively.

Cossy

I’d never even considered farmers! I was too busy think about elderly people who bought houses with lots of land say 55 years ago and would be unable to pay this tax in many instances.

Ownership of property is not an unconditional right. Society grants and protects property rights through law, courts, policing, and public infrastructure. In return, owners can reasonably be required to contribute to the cost of that system through taxation. If you own a £5 million asset but cannot afford the tax on it, you may need to sell part or all of that asset to someone who can.

That principle already exists in other contexts. For example:
Council Tax is payable even if you're retired and your income has fallen.
Business Rates are payable even if a business is struggling.
Inheritance Tax can force the sale of assets to meet the liability.
Owners of listed buildings may face maintenance costs they cannot easily avoid.

There are, of course, counter arguements to this an they may lead to mechanisms such as:

Deferring the tax until the property is sold or the owner dies;
Allowing payment to accrue as a charge against the property;
Phased implementation;
Reliefs in limited circumstances.

These measures try to preserve the economic benefits of an LVT while avoiding hardship for people with low incomes.

Buckle up folks I think we are in for quite a ride. This is the price the British public are paying for wanting to teach the useless ruling Tories a lesson for 14 years of being inept.

Burnham will be crowned as leader of the LP this Friday.

None of this was in the ‘lite’ manifesto we were all presented with at the last GE. Probably omissions on purpose.

I dread what’s coming down the line. Much of it might not affect me personally as I live in ‘cheaper’ Northern property. But I just have a strong feeling Burnham and his trusted economists will make a right royal mess.

I hear Milliband is going to be his Chancellor. Crikey.

Tony Benn avoided inheritance tax on his millions and the Milliband brothers changed their fathers will after he died to avoid inheritance tax on his millions - yet they make sure our children can’t live in the semi they grew up in as it has to be sold to pay inheritance tax.

Labour hate aspiration if it results in success.

It will be a good thing is Milliband is chancellor. He actually takes renewawable energy seriously, but is nor averse to some drilling in the North Sea, to preserve jobs.
Pretending that climate change is not happening is just not sensible any longer.
Gas is going to be unafordable before we know it. Particularly if we are so reliant on imported .

FGT2 I think there is something sometimes true about the saying politics of envy

From a purely personal perspective, this Labour government has curtailed our business model.

No expansion of premises, no taking on of any new staff.

All our costs have gone up, especially going into London daily with new tunnel tolls and the necessity of replacing vehicles to conform to congestion pricing.

This comes up time and time again when speaking to business owners…

Do you think you could cite the source of your assertions, FGT? They sound to me like something from the Daily Telegraph or the Spectator. Or a similar source...

I would ascribe your woes to a very ignorant Chancellor, GG13 and to the economic 'orthodoxy' which prioritises the interests of 'the markets', primarily the financial ones, over the people who are being 'governed'.

And the absurd and utterly wrong belief that running a national economy is like running a household.

Everyone supports tax reform if it doesn't affect them, farmers are a very small proportion of the population very few support Labour so are a very popular target.

Farmland would have to be exempt from any annual Wealth Tax because profitability is so low and there won't be the cash to pay it. It is already subject to CGT and IHT.

Property taxation is being considered, a Landlord Tax on the value of the site a building stands on, there is already a tax premium on (unearned) rental income. Any Landlord Tax would probably need to be related to business rates of the building,
The value of undeveloped commercial property depends on how much profit can be made from development, no development, no value. In this area we have sites at a standstill for decades because there is no chance of finance being available for development

MaizieD

I would ascribe your woes to a very ignorant Chancellor, GG13 and to the economic 'orthodoxy' which prioritises the interests of 'the markets', primarily the financial ones, over the people who are being 'governed'.

And the absurd and utterly wrong belief that running a national economy is like running a household.

Do you think (hope) Milliband will be a better Chancellor than Reeves MaizieD?

I don't believe in the politics of envy. I believe that most people want to live in a fair society, where those who work for a living earn enough to live a decent life in a habitable house and can raise their children to fulfil their potential.

If the reason they can't do those things is because employers won't pay enough to keep workers off benefits, landlords charge rent that has to be subsidised by taxpayers as it is so high, and public services are cut to the bone, then wanting that to change has nothing to do with envy - it's about justice.

There has to be more taxation, but as soon as any group is 'targeted' (that word makes it sound much more victimising than it should) there are cries of foul.

Workers are already taxed on low wages, and the cost of living is high, so they then have to claim even more in benefits.

If employers are asked for more, they talk about the impossibility of their businesses managing with less, but don't consider cutting profits.

If benefits such as WFA are withdrawn from older people there is uproar, even though just a year before it went, many of them were boosting about how they didn't need it.

Nobody wants to pay, but we all want to live decently. For years we've had a Conservative government, favouring low taxation, free markets and low regulation, and that didn't solve the problem. Now we have a Labour government, and traditionally that means higher taxation, a bigger welfare state and more government involvement in the economy. Labour also consider workers' rights more than Conservatives do. Swings and roundabouts, really.

Talk of how one party 'hates' XYZ or how taxation is borne of envy is just hyperbole.

Profit Doodledog profit for the majority of SME’s is and has been very fluid since the financial crisis.

Who decides how much profit is too much?

Good employers pay a decent above average salary, and have a slow turnover of staff.

First thing AB should do is raise the personnel tax allowance, this would see £’s in pockets.

Labelling all employers as low wage high profit outfits is also hyperbole …

I suppose the business owners decide what is too little, but I didn't mention 'too much' and have no idea what that would be. Is there such a thing?

I agree that good employers pay well and have loyal staff as a result - I didn't say otherwise. Nor did I label anyone - did you read my post? I don't think it is hyperbolic, but I suppose I wouldn't think that. Regardless, it doesn't say the things you suggest.

I agree that raising the personal tax allowance would be a good thing, though.

If the new PM is serious about tax reform then he really should be looking at closing the loopholes

Corporate tax lawyers earn ££££ utilising any gap in current legislation, no doubt they are already ahead of the game with regards to leaks on new tax laws

Reform proposes raising the Personal
Allowance - just saying.

I’ve always been if the opinion this has many benefits.

I think this is also something Labour want to do - when financial constraints make it possible.
Not new.

David49

Everyone supports tax reform if it doesn't affect them, farmers are a very small proportion of the population very few support Labour so are a very popular target.

Farmland would have to be exempt from any annual Wealth Tax because profitability is so low and there won't be the cash to pay it. It is already subject to CGT and IHT.

Property taxation is being considered, a Landlord Tax on the value of the site a building stands on, there is already a tax premium on (unearned) rental income. Any Landlord Tax would probably need to be related to business rates of the building,
The value of undeveloped commercial property depends on how much profit can be made from development, no development, no value. In this area we have sites at a standstill for decades because there is no chance of finance being available for development

Democracy isn't perfect, David, this hits the nail on the head as to its failings.
Government should be 100% focused on doing their best for the UK - they should NOT be focused on getting re-elected. The two aims sometimes contradict, & guess what - in a democracy, MPs make the decisions that will save their seats.
Time enough for setting out your goals & manifesto when there's a GE - we have them every 4 years anyway - in between do what most people actually would want you to do & govern for the good of the country.

Tony Benn famously reduced the inheritance tax (IHT) liability on his multi-million-pound estate by utilizing a legal mechanism called a deed of variation. Because UK IHT laws allow beneficiaries to rewrite a will within two years of a person's death, his children used this provision to distribute his estate in a highly tax-efficient manner.The controversy surrounding his estate planning arose from Benn's lifelong advocacy for wealth redistribution and the dismantling of dynastic wealth as a core tenet of his socialist politics. Critics pointed out the irony of using sophisticated tax-planning strategies typical of the wealthy to protect his family's assets from HM Revenue and Customs.
From google

Anthony Wedgwood Benn- a hypocrite to the last.

"Democracy isn't perfect, David, this hits the nail on the head as to its failings.
Government should be 100% focused on doing their best for the UK - they should NOT be focused on getting re-elected. The two aims sometimes contradict, & guess what - in a democracy, MPs make the decisions that will save their seats.
Time enough for setting out your goals & manifesto when there's a GE - we have them every 4 years anyway - in between do what most people actually would want you to do & govern for the good of the country."

Democracy is deeply flawed, polititians will always look to pleasing their own supporters and encouraging floating votes to choose them. Getting re-elected is the imperative of every polititians, economics come second every time.

This is why economic theories do not work, every democracy has borrowed too much to please voters and the interest paid. If a government borrows/creates too much money interest rates increase making it worse. Does this matter?, everyone is doing it, it results in the rich getting richer because they have the spare money to lend.

While we are paying our own population too much and importing so much labour and so many goods nothing is going to change
.

Interest paid is too much.

Jane43

Cossy

Oreo

Instead of casting about to put any new taxes in place ( window tax anyone?) he needs to put up income tax, that’s where the most money comes from.Starmer didn’t have the guts to do it, and it does take guts as everyone grumbles, but Burnham needs to.
Then he needs to do a u turn on the policy of putting up NI on employers to get more younger people into work.

I can see the sense in this!

However employers do not pay National Insurance for under 21s or apprentices under 25 unless they earn more than £4189 per month. This policy was introduced in 2015.

That’s true but there are many aged 22 to 26 out of work and the NI that small firms have to pay prevent them from hiring more people.

GrannyGravy13

If the new PM is serious about tax reform then he really should be looking at closing the loopholes

Corporate tax lawyers earn ££££ utilising any gap in current legislation, no doubt they are already ahead of the game with regards to ^leaks on new tax laws^

I haven't seen anywhere that it's been said that Andy Burnam will not look at tax loopholes.

What has been said is about democratising the many and different areas of the country and beginning to democratise taxation. It really doesn't mean nothing else will be done.